A thought experiment

[mk]

Namonamah,

I have been thinking about an experiment. Something on the lines of Maanas Poojaa.

I will hunt out a couple of unemployed youngsters who would be willing to chant VP a thousand times a day in a public place for a small stipend for six months (or lesser if they get a job and cannot continue). In this way, every six months ( or earlier) I would be contributing to changing positively the lives of two persons.
Maybe more, because the chanting would be in a public place, so even those who listen while passing by would benefit.

If each of us could do this, we could have Shivaji Park reverbating with the sounds of VP.

Any comments on the possible outcome (other than my going bankrupt!)?

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[MEENA PATKAR]

To,
MK

Very nice thought ! Please do it fast ,hunt out at least 2 youngsters who are willing to chant VP loudly ,1000 times a day , in public places for a small stipend.
If this really happens ,I assure you that you will be the best even if you are not a naamdharak, you will be a most successful person & ahead of every other follower of JVM.

I am really exited with this idea.Please do it ,I will help you out financially (in paying a small stipend),
and see that you will not go bankrupt !

Please do it as early as possible. If you really start this ,you will be doing a great job ,for the whole mankind.Waiting for the impementation of your idea.

Thanks & regards,
God bless all
Meena.

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskaar to Milindji and all,

It is nice idea to experiment something like this. It is common observation and experience of thousands of people that, If VP is enchanted with sincerity, the wish of the persons who enchant is fulfilled within 6 months. Other people who wish to enchant can also join these 2 youngsters in their free time from time to time.

 You will find many people who would be willing to contribute financially and I would be one amongst them. So please go ahead with your plan!

[amitgemmady]

Greetings and namaskaras to all.

Mr. MK

I doubt that saying VP for money without coming from heart will help the person. But I am surprised that JV believe it is working whether from heart or not.

Please write report of your experiment in forum.

Thanks
May God bless all

SG

[MEENA PATKAR]

To,
SG,

JV definately , should be chanted from heart.But till it goes to heart there is nothing wrong in started chanting it.(in  marathi-"yeil taisa bol RAm Krishna Hari- this same principle applies).

It is a process, which starts from the words and gets routed into heart slowly.

Once , in a Pravachan , Sadguru had given ,an example of how words affect.
once, at the time of elections, Respected ,the then Prime Minister Smt. Indira Gandhi,had
given the words "Garibi Hatao".There used to be discussions among the people ,about to whom they will vote.One said, he will vote to Mrs. Indira gandhi, another one also said  he will vote to Mrs.Indira Gandhi,some more people said they will vote Mrs. Indira Gsndhi.
sombody from journalists asked one of them ,"why do you want to vote Indira Gandhi ,and not others?".He answered,because,she is the one who at least says it (i. e  Garibi Hatao"),no other person is saying it. and that election was won by her .

There are many examples showing the power of words.Such as Gandhiji said "chale Jao" ,"Quit India" to British , Lokmanya Tilak said "Independence is my birth right and I will have It"What these words did,everybody knows,India got the Indepenence.

So chanting VP is very important,chanting it by heart is very very important,and never forgetting it is most important.These are the steps ,and should be followed step by step.
Sadguru always says "Kar aani Paha",the meaning is First of all do it & then,you wil be .able to see the results of chanting JV.


Thanks & regards,
God bless all,
Meena.

[shambhagwat]

Sarvanna namaskar,

Namaskar MeenaTai,

I totally agree with you. 

I had doubt with VP when I first red it.  But after reading the book "Tooch  Ahes Tujhyaa Jeevanacha Shilpkar" my doubt changed into faith.  Before experiment, if we could explain the logic behind the chanting of VP to those lucky youngsters, we may get better results.

Sarvanna Namaskar. Sarvanna Shubhecha.

[subhash]

MK, Dr. Pol, Meena, Sham,

MK's ideas are good. However, here is my opinion:

1. JV promotes help based on wisdom and would like to create self-motivated individuals. We can help people without jobs by encouraging them to attend basic course and give them the science behind the VP or make them part of the Yuva Group or make them attend the program like last month with Pradeep Tilaye. Did such experimentation myself in two cases with 100% positive results. Amit Parab - BE was without job for at least 1 year after graduation. Frustrated, lost and almost given up. He did the course and did the prayer. Got a job in 2nd month. Gauri Deshpande - BCom - was without job and was full of negative thoughts. Did a prayer for 1000+ every day and got a job with MNC in the 4th month. Of course it goes without saying that person needs to be proficient and not give up PRAYATNAS for the job, and preparations thereof.

In line with the above JV philosophy - I would rather recommend MK to provide help for the unemployed for higher education, etc. Best is to provide loan so that the other chap has a sense of responsibility and is not purely spoon fed + the model becomes sustainable. Secondly, I have met people who help for basic course and if that person wants to pay back they say sponsor one more person whom you know and this goes on. All these models are in line with JV philiosophy of help SHASHWAT way.

2. JV recommends young minds to be entrepreneurs. To that effect I know few JV young minds who did not get job but have started their own business. This is also a good way out. This way you get an opportunity to help others.

3. Another good thing about prayer - what we want for ourselves we can pray for others. This way we will increase our probability of success and it is a good way to augment our efforts. e.g. MULICHE LAGNA HOT NAHI. She can chant the prayer with one additional sentence at the end "Sarvanna suswabhavi, kartabgar navara milu de, sarvanche saunsar sukhache hou det". Of course the same sentence should be chanted over and over again with each prayer.

4. In public place - putting the VP machine might be a cost-effective solution. We need to check whether the sound disturbs people in that area before putting a machine and ensure that it is not stolen!

End the post with a note - PRAYATNA is necessary and sufficient, to accelerate/augment PRAYATNAS - prayer. This helps tap the power of subconscious mind and changes the pattern of subconscious mind for future + keeps you in the right mindset (e.g. lost or frustrated mind can not give a proper interview and you will not realize your full potential).

God bless all,
Subhash

[amitgemmady]

Namaskaras to all.

Mr. Subhash, I agree with you.  Ms. Meena, I do not feel Indira Gandhi example relates to this, with pardon.

What is VP machine?

Regards

SG

[subhash]

SG,

there is a VishwaPrarthana machine which has digitized VP in four kinds (Satguru's voice Marathi VP, Devaki Pandit's voice - Marathi, Hindi and English VPs). It costs Rs. 200/-. It is manufactured by disciples of Satguru (Again no profit or royalty goes to Satguru or Mandal). It runs on electricity (12V AC) and has a good shelf life. I am running one at my home for more than 6 years now. It has a volume adjustment and headphone socket. Some people have fit this machine in their cars and on two-wheelers.

VP machine does create a good-vibrations environment in the area it is. It reminds us of a prayer when we walk into our house or the area where the machine is placed.

Hope you got all the info you wanted.

God bless all,
Subhash

[MEENA PATKAR]

To,
SG,

The example of Mrs. Indira Gandhi ,is  given to highlight the power of words. It is not directly related to chanting of VP.But , I am just trying to explain that chanting Vp loudly or expressing the aspicious thoughts, in words is very important & effective, whether it is being chanted for money or not, or whether it is chanted from heart or not.But once we say something , it definately creats action.It is the law of nature that every action has reaction of it's own.

My huble request to you is that , still if you  feel ,the explanation is not  satisfactory,please let me know.

Respected Subhashji has expained about the VP machine.



Thanks & regards ,


God bless all,
Meena.

[subhash]

SG,

Indira Gandhi example one very important point that even if you do not put your heart in this VP chanting process (the thought experiment) and keep on doing it mechanically - you will benefit.

Experience of many is this - you start chanting it mechanically. Then it slowly brings more and more parts of your mind into it and then it becomes habit. Then you realize that you are thinking good about others by habit. Then you realize that it has become your nature - at this point you really feel compassion for all. At this point in time, you start experiencing the peace of mind (your mind starts getting steadier). This way you also indirectly get a control on your mind. This is the pre-requisite stage for doing DIVYASADHANA.

This thought experiment topic is very important and it can change our life.

Satguru in one of his lectures has urged us to do this experiment (PRAYOGA) and has mentioned that to you it might be PRAYOGA but if you ask Satguru it is YOGA. YOG means to join (YUKTA HONE) with God. Slowly our mind is getting ready to experience God within and along with it SWANANDA - bliss inherent in your own self.

God bless all,
Subhash

PS: Many of us have made a resolution of chanting the VP 1000 times every day at the start of new year. So many have already got the benefits of the experiement - will all of us who are contributing to this forum do it?

[mk]

Namonamah,

I would like to state my position on this.

My post is an old post, and has something to do with my role play of a short duration of "JV nindak". (That role play was also a thought experiment in a sense, which succeeded! but more about it at a later date). So when I proposed this thought experiment, I probably had a sly smile on my face. I had expected the reply that Subhashjee has now given, and when that reply did not come I took it as a mild rebuke, that Subhashjee did not consider it worthwhile to give a reply. I had expected Dr. Nutanjee to not reply just for the same reason - as a rebuke. That rebuke itself was a satisfying reply to me.

But I did expect a reply of another kind. A response as to whether JV members feel it would help the chanters. And I got it after a long time through Meenajee's post.

But that was not all. I was serious about the thought experiment. But only as a thought experiment. (Is chanting VP a 1000 times itself is a thought experiment? No it is not.). A short essay on Einstein had introduced me to the power of thought experiments, and a reading on some posts on Maanaspooja on the forum reminded me of thought experiments. Just imagine what possibilities this VP chanting experiment throws up! I will not list them as they are too numerous and a sufficiently crafty (intentionally used word. Not a mistake. I mean crafty) mind can unearth many. A sufficiently benign mind can generate many more, but the two lists would not match.

I continued with the thought experiment and concluded that:
1. The act of such public chanting is not suited to the mild, non-intrusive nature of JV
2. The sustained dedicated VP chanting leaving your appropriate tasks is not advocated by JV and hence it would not help even the two chanters.
3. It might create bad press for JV
4. The chanters may face humiliation, or feel humiliated. On the other hand, they might achieve stardom and become arrogant.
5. The chanters will forget the purpose of the whole exercise.
.
.
20. A beggar agent may approach them for joining his local train performing troupe.
.
.
100. People will throw coins and currency notes at the feet of the chanters.

These are the seven things conjured by a negatively charged mind. The other ninety three, thought up by the positive (benign) mind would match yours.

I had no intention of carrying out the experiment except in thought, I have no such intention now and I hope I don't end up doing it.

Eaashwaraaa, malaa chaanglee bud-dhee de raeaeae baabaa! Shankaraa, mhan re tathaaastu!!


Thanks and regards
MIlind Khadilkar

[mk]

Namonamah,
I think Indirajee's reference could come naturally when dealing with the VP chanting thought experiment. But not in the manner Meenajee brought it out or the way Subhashjee seconded it. Indirajee started the practice of paying people to chant her praise. She did it by the truckloads! My thought experiment was about doing the same for JV.

The point about the Garibi hatao slogan is different.  I remember that period even though being in primary school there was not much that I could form an opinion on. In fact everybody from communists and socialists to the then rightists (Rajaji's Swatantra party??? not sure) were seen to be pro poor. I think people liked the determination, political acumen and capacity of action she showed in dealing with the syndicate in the congress (Kamraj, Nijalingappa, Mumbai strongman S K Patil, Morarjee Desai etc. whose open lust for power caused disgust and put congress in disrepute), getting her own candidate (V V Giri) chosen as President defeating the official congress candidate (N Sanjeeva Reddy),  nationalization of banks and abolition of privy purses of the erstwhile princes, rajahs and maharajas. These steps were taken in 1969, the last two were looked upon as being pro poor and it was no surprise that Indira Gandhi leveraged it by coining the slogan Garibi Hatao. It is ironic that stray remarks (possibly made up by the media, going by today's standards) about "at least she says it" live so long. That could possibly mean that chanting VP once in a lifetime should be sufficient. I have rechecked the dates before posting this. But my impression of the overall perception about Indirajee of that time is still in my memory.

Also note that the frenzy created by "India Shining" or something like that did not create the expected result for the Vajpayee government.

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[mk]

Namonamah,

Subhashjee namaste,

Never knew such a machine existed. What with radio, TV, web presence, VP machines etc., JV is sure tech sayvvy!!

The machine's antarman (processor of some kind) would be truly tuned by its constant chanting of VP! 

I do not feel installing VP in public places would be in line with JVM's general approach. Your comments?

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[subhash]

MK,

too many posts to answer.

1. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Forum members have limitation and this is not their full time activity. If we do not reply please do not assume rebuke. Assume that people have different priorities in life. Not every post will be replied. I do not assume that you rebuke when you do not mention or explicitly agree/acknowledge to points in my post. I assume that you have read it.

2. JV does not need to pay somebody to praise (Your original version of experiment was different than the interpretation you stated in the recent post). Meena did not bring the example of Indira in this context. You are now changing the experiement. However one of your points is valid - whoever chants the prayer is helped. My point was model should be sustainable.

3. VP machine in public places? Why not - e.g. SMASHAN-BHOOMI (people have liked it), in many hotels and offices and shops it is installed (of course by the disciples), it can be in farm-fields (this can be another experiment), it can be in gardens, etc. JV's approach is surely not trouble people and hence we need to take that as given.

4. JV people are mild - it is a myth. If you are equating JV people to people who follow the philosophy. Then the answer is exactly opposite. They will neither be mild nor ahankari. They will be balanced lot with a great compassion for every living being and wisdom in their heads and connected to God from the bottom of heart. But in the larger interest they will do what is required. e.g. Satguru himself talked in public places for so many years against the deep-rooted myths/misconcepts about God - an area considered untouchanle topic due to controversies it creates. If you called that mild - I do not. Also mild is a relative term. I would encourage you not to put words in our mouth in posts - rebuke, mild are two examples in this thread. Last time I remeber you concluded that a typical JVM person is not aspirational.

5. Satguru is not just JV. You are right. Satguru is much more. However, we do consider him a great practitioner of JV.

6. Slogan - the point is different. UCHHAR has an impact. If you give gali to somebody whether you mean it or not the other person is going to react for sure. When you do prayer you have to have some portion of your mind into it. Your demand gets established. You do impact others and yourself - however infinitesimal the impact. Every thought, wish, speech, action counts.

God bless all,
Subhash