A thought experiment

[mk]

Namonamah,

Dear Subhashjee, please do not take offence (another assumption of mine, that you have!) to the terms I used.

1. Many of my posts before the one mentioned and many thereafter have gone unanswered. I obviously do not expect all post to be answered (I am not from Jhumari Talaiya), and I do not feel a sense of rebuke when I do not get a reply. But I am recording a fact, the fact that I felt it to be a rebuke, when I did not get a reply to that post. The feeling was a fact, whether or not it had a basis. Was it because I had bad intentions in writing that post, and its reaction was the feeling I got? [By the way, where do such feelings originate:in the conscious mind or the unconscious one? Where do they reside? ]

2. I meant "mild" in the positive sense. I am sure JV's approach is not like Tehelka's.

Otherwise I stand corrected.
Thanks and regards
MIlind Khadilkar

[subhash]

MK,

1. Please understand that every moment we are awake we are living as "MI AMUK". All actions at the level of thought, wish, speech and act are carried out by this JEEVA. In the original state it is DIVYASWAROOP. Because of MAYA it achieves JEEVAROOP - "MI DEHA". On "MI DEHA" society hypnotizes you with your NAME - MI AMUK. It further consolidates the belief of MI AMUK by MI ASA (I am Manager, I am rich, I am very learned, etc.). All your actions at the four levels mentioned above are on this MI AMUK, MI ASA BHAVA. This BHAVA is in subconscious mind. Our conscious mind is always looking OUTWARDS and through VISHAYAS trying to seek ANANDA.

You are wearing this goggle of MI AMUK, MI ASA and all your thoughts are originating from this MI-PAN.

Original JEEVANSHAKTI has now become VYAKTI. VYAKTI = CHAITANYASHAKTI + SANSKARAS. VYAKTIMATTVA IS GOGGLE. You "see" (think) based on this one. Your belief system is based on this one.

In this process your two minds are influencing each other. When you decide to wake up early in the morning for studies and put an alarm for 5 AM in the morning. This is done by conscious mind. But when you actually hear the alarm in the morning and put it off saying I will doze off for few more hours - it is done by your subconscious mind.

However you have a free will. You can influence your subconscious mind (Habitual thinking) by the thoughts in your conscious mind. If you are consistent enough in using this free will of conscious mind you will be able to change the way you think in general.

There is another SADHANA side to this but I am not going there yet. May be in some other topic answers.

2. Mild in traditional terms may not be what you meant and hence the clarification on the post. Satguru always insists us to become DNYANI, HUSHAR, BUDDHIMAAN. These types of people will typically have the self-esteem in the positive manner. It brings out the potential in them to the full. e.g. One of the naamdharaks was to meet Mr. Laxmi Mittal and people generally get tensed. He said I am SAT-CHIT-ANANDA-SWAROOP and why should I fear. Of course the meeting was successful. Satguru said to him that HE IS MITTAL but YOU ARE VITTHAL. Mind you the great naamdharak has not forgotten that MITTAL also is VITTHAL-SWAROOP. Just wanted to bring a point that a typical naamdharak should not have inferiority complex or superiority complex. No negative thinking. Habitually positive attitude and natural compassion for all (with knowledge that MI is everywhere and similar to the fact that your right hand does not beat your left hand).

God bless all,
Subhash

[MEENA PATKAR]

To,
MK,

I am sorry to say, but I think you are not interested in learnng JV at all.It seems you
like to argue for the sake of arguement and not for acquiring knowledge.

It is rightly said that we can wake up a person who is sleeping,but we can not wake him up who is pretending to sleep.

JV can be better understood after , practising it in our life only.Many people who have practised it , have had this experience.Practising JV means chanting of VP ,wholeheartedly,keeping in mind gratitude for everyone whenever free from work this is the only minimum requirement , to practice JV.Chanting VP in such a way
neither reqires money to be spent nor requires physical hardwork to be done,nor requires valuable time to spend(because  it is to be done in spare time available).

So if you really want to have all your doubts cleared, please believe a little and start practising it in your life.Instead of wasting your time in  meaningless  queries(childish queries).

JV is something that one can experience it ,by himself  after practising it .It can not be better explained , than having self experience.So, from today itself start doing prayer ,
honestly and sincerely,I promise you will definately realise the usefulness of JV,in your life.(mAXIMUM TO MAXIMUM  WITHIN 6 MONTHS,-I think you have spent more than 6 months in asking queries,instead of that ,if you would have started chanting VP, you would have
had good experiences of VP and would have been in a position to answer the other people's queries).


Now stop asking childish queries and start doing the VP.It is my huble request and I wish
soon ,you will have good experiences and get all your queries solved by yourself.

Thanks & regards,
GOd bless all,

Meena



Thanking you,

[Varsha]

These types of people will typically have the self-esteem in the positive manner. It brings out the potential in them to the full. e.g. One of the naamdharaks was to meet Mr. Laxmi Mittal and people generally get tensed. He said I am SAT-CHIT-ANANDA-SWAROOP and why should I fear. Of course the meeting was successful. Satguru said to him that HE IS MITTAL but YOU ARE VITTHAL. Mind you the great naamdharak has not forgotten that MITTAL also is VITTHAL-SWAROOP. Just wanted to bring a point that a typical naamdharak should not have inferiority complex or superiority complex. No negative thinking. Habitually positive attitude and natural compassion for all.

Thanks Subhashji for this quote.
I think we should make a separate link with all such incidences guided directly by Sadguru in Namdharak's life.
That will be motivating.And people will come to know abt how to use Sadguru's teachings in practical life.

[mk]

Namonamah,

That is a very good suggestion. Naamdhaaraks could collect this in book form, much like the disciples of Sri Chakradhar Swamy collected such anecdotes in लीळाचरित्र, the sacred text of Mahaanubhaavs.

Regards
Milind Khadilkar

[mk]

Namonamah,

Meenaji Namaste,

I appreciate your forthright statements. I am entirely in agreement with them. I am in this forum not to learn JV, but to learn about JV. In broader terms, I am trying to learn learning as a discipline. I am sure your best wishes are with me in my endeavors.

Except for one of its main assumptions (about du:kh being immense compared to sukh in this world) and a few tenets (like JV should not be adopted unless you accept it through reason), I find JV extremely intuitive and good-intentioned. So I will try to follow it in my own way (with all gratitude to this forum, and hence to Shri Pai Mahaaraaj) without necessarily accepting it in totality. And I am not particular about achieving the fruit of it, because I do not know what fruit I should strive for (I do not know where my kalyaan lies).

I regret this haughtiness of mine, but it is there.

About my questions: I faithfully recorded questions which came my way in the forum. I recorded them irrespective of whether they appeared childish or otherwise. I am unqualified to judge the nature of these questions as I do not have initiation in Adhyaatma of any kind.

I do have my own answers to my questions, but they sometimes differ from JV answers. My questions are aimed at getting JV answers at a level I can understand, and I am aware that in the process I have trodden on many toes. I sincerely thank the owners of those toes for granting me a pardon.

I have been a member of this forum for nearly six months, and I value what the forum has given to me in this period. But, like Shamjee once pointed out rightly, I am but a guest ( and a meddlesome one at that). The time is near for me to start collecting my strewn about belongings, pack them (Please ensure that I do not carry something belonging to this forum) and prepare for a journey to some other caravanserai, to some other madhushaalaa (any suggestions?). I have already started asking the basic travel information:

                    Uphill

Does the road wind up-hill all the way?
    Yes, to the very end.
Will the day's journey take the whole long day?
    From morn to night, my friend.

But is there for the night a resting-place?
    A roof for when the slow dark hours begin.
May not the darkness hide it from my face?
    You cannot miss that inn.

Shall I meet other wayfarers at night?
   Those who have gone before.
Then must I knock, or call when just in sight?
   They will not keep you standing at that door.

Shall I find comfort, travel-sore and weak?
   Of labour you shall find the sum.
Will there be beds for me and all who seek?
   Yea, beds for all who come.

   -- Christina Rossetti



The draupadi's JV thaalee I take with me will, I know, help me wherever I am, and will always stay with me.

I will of course keep a set of clothes here in the JV madhushaalaa in the form of my account. And I will keep on dropping in to collect my mail. With the administrators' and moderators' permission.

I will behave properly in the coming days in the hope that no one will notice that I have sneaked away without paying my bills.

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskaar,

I think we require the people like Milindji to remain on the forum. Sometimes his queries are very vague and it appears that he is a confused soul. But let him learn on this forum and I want him to stay on the forum because he stimulates brain to work. He makes you think more and makes you analyse JV philosophy in greater detail.
 
 We will find many people like Milindji, and should be in  a position to answer if we want to propagate JV in the world.
Milindji you made this forum so livelier. please keep posting!

[mk]

Namonamah,

Dr. Nutanjee namaste,

I am aware that I will be sneaking out without paying the bills.

I do not intend to stop posting to this forum, but will be doing so less frequently. I hope to be able to add a bit of value to the forum from a distance. I will keep the forum posted on the subject.

I am aware that I have been one contributer to a change in the tone and tenor of the posts in this forum, but I have been the major beneficiary of the change. I am sure that a certain amount of openness, frankness and even brashness will remain a part of this forum, without harming the innate sweetness of relations amongst members.

This forum has taught me a lot, and not just about JV.

Thanks for your goodwill.

Regards
Milind Khadilkar

[MEENA PATKAR]

To,
MK,

What   I have written ,is  only my suggestion ,for you to be in the right track , while posting the queries, then only you will be able to have good results  and able to know new things,secrets of happy life.

I never told  you to discontinue posting.Instead I feel that ,you understand the philosophy of life as explained by JV, as early as possible, so that you will come out of all confusions.


It is damn sure that ,one who wants to achieve Sukh, Yash ,Samruddhi (happiness,success & prosperity)  in life , has no other option than JV Philosophy.
The matter of not understanding it only keeps  people away from acheiving sukh , yash & samruddhi in their lives and they just go on wasting valuable life.

So please try to under stand the JV philosophy, that will also let you understand about JV,simulteneously.It does not matter if you are a namdharak or not.JV is available for the whole mankind.It should be practised by each human being to achieve happiness, success & samruddhi in life. And anyone who already has obtained all these , should practise JV, to maintain it forever.

Wherever you go,you can take the whole JV philosophy with you , you can tell others ,you can discuss it with others.Knowledge is such a thing that increses , after giving it to others.
Do start chanting the VP,minute to minute & utilise the benefits in your life in the form of Sukh,Yash & Samruddhi.


Thanking you,
God bless all,
Meena.

[shambhagwat]

Namaskar to all

So many JV members are replying to the queries of MK by various methods.  I feel that while replying to MK we must take note of his post, which was posted by him, on the 1st day of his membership.  I am reproducing it for ready reference.

Hello,

I am a new member of this forum.
. I am not a naamdhaarak, I do not have a satguru (so unfortunate!!) and I believe in jaadutona and miracles and andhashrad-dha is a strong influence in my life.. By training, I have no "faith".

I have just casually heard Vishwapraarthanaa on Radio. Yet I have caught myself chanting it often, without trying to. And I am not comfortable with the fact that I am chanting it without intending to, and without yet understanding its meaning.

Am I being influenced without my active involvement?
Namonamah

Milind Khadilkar

Now I am producing the sentence of sadguru on page 40 of Shanti Sukhacha Rajamarg.

विश्वप्रार्थना म्हणणे, वाटते तितके सोपे नाही.  कोणीही उठावे व विश्वप्रार्थना म्हणावी इतके "प्रार्थना म्हणणे" हे सोपे काम नाही.

सर्वांना नमस्कार. सर्वांना शुभेच्छा.

[subhash]

I am not the moderator or administrator of this forum. However definitely hurt to see this thread and some of the posts. Can not but express my opinions in public. Please note that these are PERSONAL OPINIONS:

Varsha,

thanks for your suggestion. We should collect anecdotal evidences of Satguru. It will definitely teach us applied JV. Will try to open up this topic with a request to moderators.

All,

We are here with a purpose. To learn JV, to express our queries, seek answers, understand different perspectives, share experiences, exchange ideas and progress towards collective SUKH. Nobody is superior or inferior. We are all students of JV. Let's treat this forum with the sanctity it deserves. It will be what we make of it. We are the architects of our own collective progress. So let's take a step back and focus on purpose - collective SUKH.

MK,

The very fact that you are chanting the VP means you are already a PUNYATMA. Will urge to be in the forum and keep on contributing. Challenge us and we will try to introspect ourselves and come back with what we know and share. DNYANAT CHIMBA HONYACHI NASHAA KAHI AUR ASTE. Help us to experience that.

Again this is my personal opinion and with no intention to hurt you - Sometimes I find you KRITRIM in not acknowledging that we are here for knowing JV. May be my interpretation but sometimes I find you playing with words as well. Nevertheless, I personally like you as a contributor to this forum would like to learn from you.

Sham,

SANSKARAS manifest in terms of ANTAHPRERANA. Our SANSKARAS determine how we think, what we like and what we do not like. Some people walk past a pile of books as if it is some dustbin and ignore it; while others can not help but flip every one of those books to appreciate. What you like and what you do not shows your SANSKARAS. MK doing the prayer is therefore showing his SANSKARAS are towards that liking. Nothing happens without reason. One should not get uncomfortable while doing the right things intentionally or unintentionally. So he should have no reason of discomfort.

Meena,

your posts can be misconstrued. But did notice your compassion in the last post. You are the emotional hat of the six hats. Please take it as a constructive criticism.

All,

Come what may we need to one day do the correction at the level of DRISHTI that we see things. What we perceive may not be the reality. We are fortunate few who have been blessed with Satguru's knowledge. Let's try to correct at the root cause level - our DRISHTI - our goggle - our SAMAJNIRMIT ME - our SAHAJ SMARAN.

Satguru says - VISMARAN TE SMARAN ANI SMARAN TE SPHOORAN ASA PARAMARTHACHA PRAVAS AHE.

Let's all embark on this journey of learning and collectively become happy.

God bless all,
Subhash

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskaar,

All this I have written mainly to myself, but thought some people may find it meaningful and interesting and may like to read it.  Incase I am hurting anybody, please forgive me. 

JV philosophy appears simple and it is a journey which teaches us to manage all the factors which are concerned with us in such a beautiful manner so as to have harmonious atmosphere and have beautiful atmosphere which will be conducive to have all round progress of all concerned to us.
 But this outwards management mainly depends on what we are from inside. So we need to change from inside and that is the reason we all do sadhana prescribed to us by Satguru. If we do not have desire to introspect we will not change faster. JV philosophy is not a theory but it is way of living beautifully.

It reminds me of the song written by Pralhad dada , Jivanvidya hi jagayachi asate. We all are human and are likely to commit mistake but we have to accept it at least to ourselves then only rhudayasth Satguru will be pleased with us and our spiritual journey will be smooth. If I hurt somebody then that persons ego will be hurt and create some kind of reaction and this cycle will be continued. Hence if somebody hurts me I should analyse and see whether I have hurt this person knowingly or unknowingly and should correct myself.  We all pass vibrations of thoughts to others.God knows how many rigid sanskaras we have to fight with and it is not all that simple journey. Hence Saint Tukaram says that we have to face the war from inside as well as outside.

Satguru does not like anything forcing on anybody. He tells what is good for us and then says you are the master of your destiny. I was told by one pravachankar that one pravachankar was insisting people to read books and used to ask them questions from the book and if they do not answer them, he used to criticize them openly. When Satguru came to know about this he told him not to do this. There are many incidences when he has told not to force people.
Satguru knows what we are doing. He is antaryami, the one who knows what we are doing, thinking etc. We can not progress spiritually if our behaviour is contrary what he tells us. That reminds me a story which was told by one naamdharak at recent granth dindi. One pravachankar was criticizing all rituals very harshly in his pravachan. May be  rhudaysth Satguru did not like all this, while concluding his pravachan, pravachankar said please forgive for coming late. I came late because my wife was fasting and she said unless you take Prasad, please do not go. So to respect her feelings I had to eat and then come. Pravachan got over and he started asking people what did I say in the end? So Satguru made him realize what he was preaching and why he should not insist on anything.     

  So we all are likely to learn from our mistakes only and should not fear of committing mistakes and should try again and again till we learn this art of living.

[Deepak_jvm]

Dear Subhash,
Thank you for responding to the situation while I was away from forum for few days.

Dear All,
If you don't like some post, you may report to moderator by clicking on the "report to moderator" giving details and your name and user ID. Please avoid advising somebody to stop posting.
As we are writing posts without actually knowing to other members personally, we should maintain respect for all, irrespective of the forum members status - whether JVM member or not. Please remember Satgurus message "Anand vata ani Anand Loota".

Dear Milindjee,
We are fully aware that you are our guest. It is not our intention to stop anybody from posting in forum, as long as the member remains within acceptable limits. Satguru always encourages disciples to challenge if some concept is not agreeable. Of course before saying that something is wrong, it becomes the responsibility of the the challenger to do it with due respect for others and also a duty the explain what is right. 
When you challenge, it helps us to study the topic under discussion in more details. Earlier I used to respond to every topic. But nowadays Senior members like Subhash, Dr Nutantai, Bhagwatsaheb and some other members are replying to most of the questions nicely. To avoid feeling in the minds of members that I am intervening, I have minimized my posts.

We I would like to refer you to my previous reply to your post, when you expressed apprehension with the quote "I do consider myself a guest, but as some one who has come to stay (moderators willing) for good.".

I do consider myself a guest, but as some one who has come to stay (moderators willing) for good.

I am afraid I do have the habit of taking liberties with my hosts. I hope, within limits. My inspiration has been Tulasidasji:

I am enjoying my stay here (except for the two weeks I had borne the mantle of a Nindak) and I am learning a lot on many fronts from so many people.

May God Bless all,
Deepak

[shambhagwat]

Namaskar to all,

Namaskar DeepakDada, SubhashDada and NutanTai.

Thank you very much.  Your posts will now maintain decent decoram of the forum

Sarvanna Namaskar.  Sarvanna Shubhecha.

[mk]

Namonamah.

Meenajee Namaste,

I am afraid it is being construed that your post has somehow caused me to react. I wish to clarify that it is nothing of the kind. Discerning members will notice no trace of "hurt" in my reply to you, but a positive effort to respond without diluting my stand. I personally find nothing wrong in your asking me to desist from posting "childish" questions. On the other hand, I consider it my obligation to ask any question that crops up in my mind in relation to JV. I consider it a kind of documentation. The worth (or lack of it) could be reflected in the answer, and "This is a childish question" is an answer acceptable to me.

When I noticed your post, I was already outlining my post on reducing the level of involvement in the forum. I find that to gain fully from the JV forum, I need to understand logic better and I have identified a couple of tools and methodologies which appeal to me, To be able to devote time for that, I needed to reduce my time elsewhere, and JV forum takes some of the cut. That was what I was going to post.
My mistake was that I clubbed my content and my reply to you in a single post. Causing unnecessary confusion and inconvenience.

My regrets.

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

Til Gul Ghyaa.... Go~d go~d nako, go~d bolaa.