Do the terms Dev, Eashwar and Parameshwar mean the same in JV?

[mk]

Namonamah,

Does the term Eashwar in VP refer to Parameshwar? Does Dev mean the same thing? If I remember rightly, some panths like the Mahaanubaavs differentiate between terms similar to these. (I might be wrong)

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskaar,

VP is addressed to Ishwar who resides in everybody's heart.

Ishwar and Parameshwar are qualitatively similar but quantitatively not similar. (Both have Sat+ Chit + aanand  as a swaroop.)

Ishwar is Chaitany shakti in respect with one individual.

Parameshwar is chaitany shakti which is all pervading is a infinite ocean of C. S. who occupies whole universe; infinite stars, galaxies etc. He exists in all manifested forms as well as exists as non-manifested.

The one who gives is Dev according to JV. Deto to Dev.

So mother, father, teacher, atmdev, our Satguru, our country and the whole universe are devas to us and we should be grateful to them.


To understand concept of Parameshwar - we should read book written by Satguru-"Parameshwar-samaj-Gair samaj" and listen to cds."Parameshwarache roop ani Swaroop"

In advance course it is explained in detail.

Sarve sukhinh santu, sarve santu niramayah.
 

 

[mk]

Namonamah
Thank you Dr. Nutanjee, for your answer.
Of course, you had already anticipated my question and provided the answer in advance in one of your poems:

तेथे साक्षात् ईश्वर असतो-

  माझ्याच  ईच्छा फ़क्त असतात तेंव्हा मी एकटा असतो.

  सर्वांच्या ईच्छा, सर्वांचा विचार जेंव्हा असतो, तेथे साक्षात् ईश्वर असतो.

  माझी प्रतिष्ठा,  मान-सन्मान, आणि नाव लौकिक असतो तेंव्हा मी एकटा असतो.

  सर्वांचे यश, सर्वांचा सन्मान-नाव लौकिक  असतो, तेथे साक्षात् ईश्वर असतो.

  माझे कल्याण, माझे रक्षण, माझे हित  जेंव्हा असते तेंव्हा मी एकटा असतो.

  सर्वांचे कल्याण, सर्वांचे रक्षण, सर्वांचे हित असते तेंव्हा मी साक्षात् ईश्वर असतो.

  मी, माझे, माझ्यासाठी असते तेंव्हा मी अगदी एकटा असतो.

  सर्व, सर्वांचे, सर्वांसाठी मागणे असते तेंव्हा साक्षात् ईश्वर स्वरूप असतो.


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=
Am I right in my understanding that being in the position of the above Eashwar (in your poem) only can we expect to interact wth parameshwar, but as long as I remain Ekata, it is not possible to do so?

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[amitgemmady]

Dear Dr Pol Madam,

In the English translation of VP God mean what? What would be English names for Ishwar, Deb and Parmeshwar?

I do not understand your Marathi posts very well, but I thank you for your efforts and generosity.

Dear MKjee,
Is the English translation of VP as much effective than Marathi? Which should I recite?

May God Bless all. Greetings on Vijayadashmi to all
Thank you

S G

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskaar S. G.

Happy greetings on Vijayadashmi to you and all. Thank you for your kind compliments. Please continue to post your queries.

God- this term is used for both Ishwar and Parameswar. According to the usage we should interpret the meaning. Usage of C. S. -Chaitany Shakti or Parameshwar and Ishwar would be preferred for discussion than using term "God". but in V. P. we have to use it as God because the term is used most commonly and hence would be easy to referred to.

There is no exact synonym for the concept of Dev in western philosophy or in other religions; as worshipping-respecting various devas- Benefactors is an concept of Indian religion and culture.  E.g. matru devo bhav, pitru devo bhav, acharya devo bhav etc.
but as you know devah means- diyate iti devah. Which  means deva is giver-donor.

There is no  exact synonym for the concept of Ishwar and Parmeshwar also in other religions.
There is very much confusion amongst all religions in the world about the concept of God. More so because of personification of God,  idol worshipping, worshipping of various images , symbols, prophets, tombs etc.

JV says that Parameshwar is only one for all peoples in the world and He exists in non-manifested form as infinite ocean of Chaitany Shakti and exists in manifested form as chaitany shakti which is natural, self-regulatory, intrinsically controlled systematized order,  endowed with laws of nature. In manifested forms He exists in all living and non-living existences.

So JV does not advocate idol worship nor it condemns it. It does not advocate fasts for doing spiritual progress but says that you may do it to control your body weight and for physical health.

 
In the English translation of V. P and in all translations V. P. it is addressed to Chaitany Shakti which resides in our spiritual heart Who is Ishwar.

If you understand the meaning of Marathi prayer you may do it in Marathi otherwise you may do it in English or any other language of your choice. V.P is  translated in Konkani, Kannada, Hindi and in other languages. Please enquire to JVM Head Office.regarding translations of V.P.s.

V.Ps in all languages would be equally effective. It depends on which one you would like to chant?

May everybody be blessed with divine knowledge from Shri. Satguru and relentless enchanting of V. P.

 

[mk]

Namonamah.

Dear S G

I refer to the following from your mail:

QUOTE
Dear MKjee,
Is the English translation of VP as much effective than Marathi? Which should I recite?
UNQUOTE

I am afraid you are asking the wrong person. I am possibly in a worse position than you with respect to VP. I know the words but am filled with doubt. I chant VP a few hundred times on some days, I do not need to take special efforts to do it (on some days. On other days, it is impossible!), but I am sure my mind is not on it. Santjee Wamanrao Pai has stated that it works whether you believe in it or not, and hence I am going ahead.

Don't go by the "Senior" word in the label attached to me. It is a byproduct of the digital age, when because you passed some insignificant criteria (like number of posts here), you get an exalted label. I am just a humble bystander in JV.

There!   I just saw you wizz past me! Have  a great journey on JV, Dear SG!

Best wishes
Milind Khadilkar

[mk]

Namonamah,

Thank you Dr. Nutanjee for your lucid answers.

I understand now that VP is addressed to Ishwar who resides in everybody's heart, and not to Parameshwar.

So when we talk about "tujhe go-d naam", in VP, we again mean not Parameshwar, but Ishwar.

Or, am I again wrong?

Regards
Milind Khadilkar

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskaar to all,

Dear Milindji,

  You are right. When we are addressing the VP to Ishwar, it is in context with His name that we say "tujhe go-d naam", in VP.

May everybody get earnest desire to enchant VP!

[subhash]

Hi All,
 
Thought that SG, MK and others have asked very important questions. Will answer in a day or two since I need to rush for a flight to India. Too much international travel over last few weeks... (By the way, noticed that FX counters are accepting Indian Rupee at Singaport airport - YES - a very good feeling).

Few immediate clarifications before the next post:

1. Need to understand some basic jargon in Paramartha and need to be very clear while using these terms. At times, scripts use it interchangeably.
2. Let's define these basic terms in the next post - rather understand the definitions given by Satguru
3. DEB is different than PARAMESHWAR. PARAMESHWAR is everywhere. There is no place where P does not exist. Very similar to the fact that there is air almost anywhere you go on earth but wind may be there only in few places.
4. VP - it is done by conscious mind to subconscious mind. Ideally you should do it in your mother tongue and hence would request the translation to be done in mother tongue - reason being that subconscious mind would accept mother tongue statements early.
5. With that said, you can still do it in English. It is available at JVM web site.
6. MK - you will need to recite it at least few hours for receiving immediate benefits (in reference to whether you believe or not it works). But if you can do it in your mind (MANASIC JAAP) - like we think in our mind usually - for 1000 times a day - it will surely accelerate the results for you - THOUGH, NOT AT ALL EASY TO CHANT IN MIND ONLY. You will realize why does not happen every day - we are dealing with mind. TUKA MHANE YENE BAHU NADILE SHAHANE. But happy to know that you are chanting it.

More in next post.

Subhash

[mk]

Namonamah,

Dear Subhashjee,

From your post it is evident that you have had a strenuous work schedule. Yes. It is good to hear that INR is now acceptable in Singapore exchange counters!

Your proposition about the need to precisely define terminology in Paramartha is very very welcome. Though, I am not well-versed in the terminology, SG apparently is, where there is probably more danger of clash of meanings.

I have been thinking about a shared and published gmail spreadsheet with columns: Term, MostPreciseDefinition, BookSource, ElaborationSource, and any others that may seem appropriate. People like me could find the terms and fill up the first column, and wherever we can find a crisp definition, put it in the second column. You and other seniors and the knowledgeables could help out with the other columns. Later on, we could create crosslinks and incorporate links to major elucidating forum posts.

I had started on this effort, but a machine overhaul made my earlier tools inaccessible.

Looking forward to your views on the same.

Thanks and regards

Milind Khadilkar

[subhash]

MK,

reached Mumbai airport. Scribbling few things:

1. Chaitanyacha viraaat saagar - Ocean of life is PARABRAHMA.
2. CHAITANYA = BRAHMA
3. CHAITANYASHAKTICHA VIRAAT SAAGAR - Ocean of Life Force = Cosmic Life Force = PARAMESHWAR
4. Upadhi = SHARIR = Living Body
5. Upadhichya apeskshetil PARAMESHWAR = ISHWAR. SPACE inside the 4 walls is really no different than SPACE outside of the 4 walls - AKASHAAT TATVATAHA BHINNATA NAHI. But inside the 4 walls the SPACE is called ROOM. You say I am in the room. Same way TATVA EKACH - CHAITANYASHAKTI (Ek vasudeva naande charachari, tyaveen dusari vastoo nahi)
6. Upadhi dharan karanyachya prakriyet - in the process of creating body, ISHWARAla SWAROOPACHA SWATAHACHA VISAR PADATO. Reason is MAYA. Effect is ISHWARA becomes JEEVA. Today most of us are JEEVAs.
7. When JEEVA attains SMRUTI (SMRUTIR LABDHWA... - BGeeta) through a process (DIVINE MEDITATION) it becomes realized soul = DEVA.

Thus PARAMESHWAR is everywhere, now and here, far and near, over and under, left and right, above and beyond, inside and outside. But if our frame of reference is body then it is called ISHWARA. Our finger is part of our body but body is not just finger. (NACHA AHAM TESHWAVASTHITA - BGeeta). HE is omnipresent. HE is infinite (two meanings - APAAR, ASEEEM, APARANPAAR; secondly endless), HE is ANADI (beginningless - there was no time when HE was not there). But when we say HE - we think of a person. Satguru says that is wrong. VYAKTIKARAN, MOORTIKARAN, CHITRIKARAN is wrong. How can you describe infinite in one idol? HE is NIRGUN. Means HE does not have specific GUNA AND all gunas come from HIM. HE is AROOPA, ARANGA in the same sense. HE is SARVAVYAPAK, SARVASHAKTIMAAN, ANANTA, ABHANGA, AVYAKTA, ACHYUTA, NIRALAMB, ACHALA, ADWEETEEYA.

Need to sit in the car to Pune - will send more in next post.

God bless all,
Subhash

[Deepak_jvm]

Dear Subhash,
I hope you had wonderful time in Singapore.
As Satguru says Systematised order in Nature is Parmeshwar. Manmade systematised  order  is "upasana" of Parmeshwar.
You must have experienced upasana in Singapore.

Now coming to our topic of discussion, Dr Nutanji and you have explained very well all the terms. I would like to add just one point.

When we say "Dev" we should remember divinity. Thus "Divine consciousness" is equivalent word for "Dev". "Jethe divyatva jagrut avasthet ahe".

May Dev bless all,
Deepak

[mk]

Namonamah
Dear Deepak,

Quoting from Dr. Nutanjee's post:  diyate iti devah. Which  means deva is giver-donor

Thanks for adding divinity to it. We can then exclude from the term Dev those who give "bheek' (alms) in an unsystematized (without vyavastha for its proper usage) manner, for example to a beggar at a road junction?

How is bhoot-dayaa related to  Dev?

One question, though: Does divyatva derive from Dev, or the other way round,  (obviously it should not be both) .or neither?

Can we say that Parameshwar, Ishwar and Dev (Divinity) form a trimoorti (arrr....   Moorti might not be acceptable to JV) or trinity? Or they are just differently manifested forms of the same?

Thanks in advance.

Regards
Milind Khadilkar

JeevanVidya is the mahesh that causes my world to crumble around me
JeevanVidya is the Vishnu that sustains me through this difficult period
JeevanVidya is the Brahma that will create a new world for me.
Shivam, Satyam, Sundaram

जीवनविद्ये, हिरावून घेतलेस माझे सर्वस्व तू
मग एकट्याला सावरलेस त्या पडझडीतून
अन् दिलेस एक दिव्य परिमाण तू मला
शिवम्  सत्यम्  सुन्दरम्

[mk]

नमौनमः

"देतो तो देव" असे म्हटले तर "देव कोप करतो" किंवा "देव कृपा करतो" ही दोन्ही वाक्यं खरी वाटतात.

"परमेश्वर ही व्यवस्था" असेल तर भूकंप, महापूर, दुष्काळ हे त्या परमेश्वराचाच भाग मानता येतील का?

परमेश्वराला अनादी म्हणणं हे आडमार्गाने "माहित नाही" म्हणणेच नव्हे का?

"शरीर साक्षात् ईश्वर" का नाही?

विनीत,

मिलिंद खाडिलकर

[subhash]

MK,

Understand the concepts clearly...

1. Deto to dev. Remember DEV is different than Parameshwar. Parameshwar kahi det nahi ani ghet nahi. P kripa karat nahi and kop karat nahi. We invite kripa and kop based on the laws of nature as reactions to our actions. But DEVROOP SATGURU or in short Dev matra kripa kartat and tyanchyakadoon kripa hote-suddha. Kripa kartat - when Satguru gives DNYAN. Kripa hote - when we do SADHANA and we receive reactions from P part of DEV. By definition when you are DEV then you would not do KOP (since you will not hurt yourself and DEV knows you, me and everything that is there, is one). In our frame of reference, we say SURYA PRAKASH DETO but reality is SURYAKADUN PRAKASH MILATO.

2. P is in two forms. AVYAKTA and VYAKTA. VYAKTA P manifests as a systematized order. Everything that is generated out of P is systematized order. Earthquakes, MAHAPUR, DUSHKAAL are reactions to actions of the human race to some extent and to some extent natural phenomenon. They are not by design. e.g. if one drives a car recklessly one meets with accident then it is not a problem with systematized order of car. Also if the car drops due to force of gravity on slope it is just natural because laws of gravity are in effect. Same is the case with Earthquakes, floods, tsunamis, etc. We are doing bad things in PARYAVARAN.

3. ANADI is the truth. It is said with conviction. There really was no time when Chaitanyashakti was not there.

4. SHARIR SAKSHAT ISHWAR ka nahi? - Call it ISHWAR. But it should be LIVING HUMAN BODY. In Marathi - BODY is of two types - SHARIR (Living) and PRET (Dead).