God vs. Dog?

[mk]

Namonamah,

I have been frequently listening to the JV programme on AIR Asmita Channel. Today the programme repeatedly contrasted God and Dog, equating Dog with daitya. I am not particularly fond of dogs, but I did feel a sense of hurt at this downright unfair treatment of dogs.

Are not dogs included in "sarvaannaa" of VP?

--Milind Khadilkar

[subhash]

MK,

Sarvanna includes every bhootamatra.

I could not hear the program you all heard. I can only say so much - sometimes bhasha vishay lakshat yenyasathi valavali jaate tyamule ase vatanyacha sambhav ahe. We need to take the learning out of every lecture - GOD and DOG are exact ULTA words - in that sense it is termed as DAITYA. I am sure Satguru's intention is not what you are interpreting. In the whole lecture or the book this part should be miniscule.

I would stress more on the learning that I get from the CHINTAN than overly worry about these exceptional parts.

God Bless All,
Subhash

[mk]

Namonamah,
Thanks Subhashjee.

Thanks for pointing out that we should ignore aberrations to the general theme.

Probably what I wrote was the reaction of a person leading a dog's life.

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[subhash]

MK,

apologies if I have hurt you. I think you are leading a wise human's life. Your JIDNYASA demonstrates that aplenty.

Still want to say that Satguru comes at a very different level. He is having a compassion for everybody - BHOOTAMATRA. We need to understand that. Let's not call it aberration.

Sant Tukaram maharaj says - NAHI TARI KAHI THODI, SHWAN SOOKARE BAPUDI but the same Sant Tukaram says VRIKSHA VALLI AMHA SOYARE. This is not aberration. It is the context.

Geeta says PANDITAHA SAMADARSHINAHA. In that there is a mention of DOG, CHANDAL, etc. This is the place saints are coming from. TYANCHI UNCHI PHAR VEGALI AHE. Aple maanadanda tyanna lavu nayet evadich namra apeksha.

You can call me names. You can say anything to me. But not to my Satguru. Because I know where he is coming from. I have talked to him number of times and seen him in action. Seen his compassion. Experienced his KALAKAL.

Hope that clarifies.

Subhash

[mk]

Namonamah
Subhashjee, I accept wholeheartedly. My only wish is that stray citations should not cause anyone to think otherwise of Shri wamanrao Pai. Incidentally, what is KALAKAL?

The following is often attributed to Sant Tulsidasjee. I doubt it and do not wish to believe it. I would appreciate if you can throw some light on it:

"shoodra, pashu. dhol aur naari
Ye hain taadan ke adhikaari"

I hate to imagine if it is taken a s the basis for Tulsidasjee's world-view.

I just hope it is a wrong rendering or interpretation like the following which I once jokingly conjectured of a line in the famous Saraswateevandanaa:    "yaakundendu-tushaarahaara-dhawalaa...."

Imagine a mother dragging her small protesting daughter in front of the father and asking him to punish her : "Aho, jaraa yaa Veenaa var dand mandita karaa." Not impossible if one has bhaaradast bhaashechaa so-s.

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[subhash]

MK,

What is KALKAL? कळकळ. This is something which is beyond words. ANUBHACHIYA JOGE NOHE BOLA AISE. Still I will take a shot at it:

Once Satguru was medically sick. He was supposed to take some rest. Mr. Dhage - the Life Trustee - was near him. One person approached Satguru and started asking few questions. Satguru went on and on forgetting about his health. Afterwards Mr. Dhage asked him a question as to why he did what he did. Satguru said TUZYATALA DHAGE GELYASHIVAY TULA MAZI KALKAL SAMAJNAR NAHI.

Satguru NOKARI KARAT ASTANACHI GOSHTA - he was transferred to Pune for some months. He used to travel to Parel every week just to give a one hour lecture. At that time Mumbai-Pune journey would have been easy 6-7 hours.

I see many retired people in various age groups. Very few of them I know are at the age of 86 doing this kind of karya.

Just 3-4 years back he was to come to Pune to attend a program. He started for the airport from Borivali in a car but met with a traffic jam on his way. He took a decision immediately so that he will be able attend this program on time. He requested a lift to a scooter driver! He went all the way to airport as a pillion rider!! He traveled to Pune alone.

CHANDANASARIKHA ZEEJAVITI DEHA
JEEVA TALAMALE JANAHITASATHI JANAHITASATHI...

One more incidence. He was taking rest after a loooooooong and busy day and said that please donot send anybody inside. However one of the naamdharaks who was not aware of this request brought a person for anugraha. He immediately got up and with great sincerity and compassion gave the anugraha as if nothing has happened. Then he talked to the person for few minutes.

I have said on this forum take it or leave it, have put intended pun, have given up on few things declaring in my own mind that people are not understanding it. But look at Satguru - he is doing it incessantly for so many decades 4.5+ TAPA (period of 12 years). His persistence, perseverence and patience is uncomparable and one of its kind.

HEY SARVA KASHASATHI? TYANNA KAHICH MILAVAYACHE NAHI. He has got sakshatkar, he retired as a deputy secretary of finance - a good post, he has a good family (His son IIT, MBA and Genral Manager, his grand son CA and Mumbai University Gold medalist), etc. He could have easily made millions if only he would have charged just Rs. 5 royalty on his books. Forget books - Anugrahache naral vikale aste tari LAKSHADHEESH zale aste. But he did not do that. He is the real GIVER. Common people give because they want some return-gift. He gives because he has a natural URGE to make everybody in this world happy. This is KALKAL.

Can't help but bring in Tukaram Maharaj on SANTA:

KAY VANU MI YA SANTANCHE UPAKAR
MAJ NIRANTAR JAAGAVITI
KAY DYAVE YANSI VHAVE UTARAI
THEVITA HA PAAYI JEEV THODA

Asha Satgurunna koti koti pranaam.

Jai Satguru, Jai Satguru.
Subhash

[mk]

Namonamah,

I hope JV members will take this post in the right spirit, because I do not intend to cast doubt on either JV's or Shri Wamanrao Pai's attitude towards women. My sole intention is to advocate (as I have done on earlier occasions in this forum) that JVM needs to be more careful in choosing its words and imagery so that id does not send wrong messages or inadvertently propagates views contrary to JV's. The radio programme on Asmita channel is by far the most powerful means of getting JV to the masses, and it is also the major source of JV views for me personally. I feel at least on that channel, JVM needs to be more careful.

This time I refer to the programme aired on Friday 11th January 2008. The speaker (from mentions of recordings in this forum, I gather the speaker is Wamanrao Pai himself, but I do not know) equated a person's wife to "Vaishnodevi". That itself is problematic, because the question arises as to what women should equate their husbands to. But what I am actually uncomfortable about is the reasoning given why the wife is the real Vaishnodevi: she smiles at you, she gives you a steaming cup of tea, and so on. In today's times a city wife under the age of 30 is unlikely to be falling under this stereotypes. A question could naturally arise: are these wives not vaishnodevis?  Also, does JV endorse this stereotyping of women? This looks more like Asarambapu's viewpoint (I am not saying that his view is wrong. It is his view) than JV's.

It is easy to say that this is just a manner of speaking, that obviously Mr. Pai does not hold such views, and that such wording should be ignored in favour of the underlying thought. But it is because you know the thought and look at the words in that light. But suppose these very words are to form the basis for someone's thought?

Members of the forum have on previous occasions agreed with me that JV needs to be more careful. Can they press this point with the JVM machinery and oblige?

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[subhash]

MK,

you are missing the whole point. Point is about real Vaishnodevi. You have not said anything about so-called Vaishodevi. So-called Vaishnodevi does not DO anything whereas your wife does everything for you. She is a living idol of God. If you call this stereotyping because of mention to tea, etc. I am afraid you are taking a very narrow view.

How should a wife look at her husband? In the same manner. Not just husband but to her children as well.

Satguru has said that Doctor should look at patients as God and patient should look at Doctors as God.

God bless all,
Subhash

[Deepak_jvm]

Dear Milindjee,
I would like to add few points to clarify.
I appreciate your concern and respect for Dogs. I also appreciate your concern for correct choice of words.

First of all please note that Dog is used in contrast to God just for rhythm and illustration purpose. In the Abhangas,a and various ancient literature our saints or rishi's used rhythmic words in their abhangas etc. Satguru has pointed out on several occasions that the words used by saints were not suitable. Over a period the correct words were replaced by some people to maintain rhythm without knowing their implication. Saint Eknath had expressed is dissatisfaction over replacement of words for the purpose of rythm.

I remember, once in Jogeshwari programme one Catholic priest mentioned in his speech that "God is within you". In continuation of that in his discourse Satguru said,"It is true that God is within you. But don't forget that doG is also within you". Here you should remember the dog when barking for no reason.

When somebody is talking or writing very nicely (even though somebody is irritating him/her for no reason or some trivial reason), you can say God in that person is awake and the "barking doG" is sleeping.

On the contrary when somebody is shouting, insulting the people around him/her or writing in some abusive language even in response to the polite response of somebody, you can say "God within the shouting person is sleeping" and "barking doG in that person is awake". Decent people want to keep themselves away from such people. I used to keep away from mad dogs (pisalalela kutra). Otherwise I like dogs for their sincerity with the owner.

For your information, daily speeches on radio are read by radio staff and written by namdharaks. The radio programme is very popular. We have received very positive feedback about it. Thanks to the namdharaks involved in script writing on daily basis for last several years. So far we haven't heard of any complaints.

As you intention is to learn, I am sure, you will look at the meaning Satguru wants to convey. Please don't let your "bhutdaya" interfere with your process of rasagrahan.

May God bless all,
Deepak

[mk]

Namonamah,
Subhashjee Namaste,

My point was the even if the wife does not do anything for the husband from amongst the things mentioned, even then she should be revered as Vaishnodevi. Thus, she should be revered as Vaishnodevi on the sole strength of her being your wife and not on any additional factors.

Thanks and regards

Milind Khadilkar

[mk]

Namonamah,
Deepakjee Namaste,

I appreciate what you say, and do not undermine the use of twists to a word to produce the desired effect. However, my concern was different, as the following excerpt from my earler post would show.

QUOTE
It is easy to say that this is just a manner of speaking, that obviously Mr. Pai does not hold such views, and that such wording should be ignored in favour of the underlying thought. But it is because you know the thought and look at the words in that light. But suppose these very words are to form the basis for someone's thought?
UNQUOTE

However, I do not press the question further. Your and Subhashjee's posts have given me the answers.

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar