Operations of Divya Bank

[mk]

Namonamah,

My understanding of JV was that one's honesty or dishonesty does not matter.... only the result matters.

Elsewhere on the forum and also on Akashwani, the example has been given of putting one's hand on a burning coal.

Selection for promotion is a complex matter and involves many factors and it is rarely objective. The opinion and prejudice ("judgment") of the person making the decision MUST play its part.

Accept it or not, personal motives also play a part.

A decision made in such complex conditions has a certain probability of being right, and a certain probability of being wrong. One cannot escape it: the decision taken through good motives need not be right; the decision taken through bad motives need not be wrong.

In all, Ashishjee's simple looking question can be answered if we have answers to the following questions:

1. Is one rewarded/penalised on the basis of one's motives?
2. Is one rewarded/penalised on the basis of one's effort or involvement?
3. Is one rewarded/penalised on the basis of one's abilities? (In spite of honesty, effort, involvement, one might just be incapable of taking the right decision/action)
4. Is one rewarded/penalised on the basis of the correctness of one's decision/action?
5. Is one rewarded on the basis of success/failure of one's action?

Could all answers be simultaneously "Yes"?

6. It might take a long time to prove a decision right or wrong. Is there an interim reward/penalty?

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskaar,

Milindji I think you are confused regarding the philosophy of JV. Having motive/intention regarding any action itself is karma at the level of mind and it will have its consequences as paap or punya depending on the desire behind it. JV asks everybody to think good about others as this is satkarma done at the level of mind.

Any action done with the motive of giving pain to others will definitely invite situations of agony for the person concerned in the form of reaction. This is dushkarama at the level of body as well as mind.

Similarly if you have given pain to somebody unintentionally it will invite troublesome condition for you because you have hurt somebody but this is a action at the level of body only and hence paap will be less as compared to the action done intentionally.

Every action may be at both level body and mind and hence person will have to face reaction for the karmas depending on whether he has done satkarma or dush karma.

Satkarma=action which gives happiness to others and dush karma is action which gives pain to others.

 Each action may give happiness to some and pain to others and if so the person concerned will experience both pain and happiness as a result of one single action but still the intensity of happiness and pain may vary depending each individual action which has created reaction in each individual mind.


1 every motive is a action at the level of mind and will face reaction accordingly.

2 When you work sincerely for the progress of your company, you are serving the society and nation indirectly and many people are benefited and this is punya.

3 Every decision depends on many factors but its consequences will depend on the reaction it has created in individual minds.

4 Action will create reaction. Success is not an action it is the after effect of action.

By saying Interim effect I do not know whether you mean total effect or long term effect? Any action when it is done it will invite reaction only once.
 

[MEENA PATKAR]

Nutantai Namaskar,

Vithal Vithal,

Perfect reply given by you to MK's confusion.


Even if knowing the answer ,I was confused ,about how to explain the answer to the query of MK.


Thanking you

Meena
God bless all.

[subhash]

Ashish and all,

apologies for late late reply. Really busy over past couple of weeks. Here it is:

Let's get some principles/guidelines into consideration:

Satkarma = one which is in tune with laws of nature - self-explanatory
Larger interests first - that is why a person who kills other people gets rewarded in public - In the interest of country a soldier fights in the battle, etc.
Duty first - Keeping the larger interests in mind one needs to be 100% committed to this
Motive is very important in giving the right impressions - it is also a karma

A giving promotion to B is the RIGHT thing over A giving promotion to C and A not giving promotion to anybody
B and C need to take it in the right spirit and so their family members

Paapa and Punya are not relative concepts. They are real as per the laws of nature. Karma may generate good and bad impressions. e.g. Soldier killing soldier of opposing country will receive a bad impression for killing a human being as also very good impressions for protecting larger interests (people of his country). However the good impressions are disproportionately larger. But motive is also important. If he does it with honesty and integrity over NAAILAAZ then he will receive huge punya.

MK has raised good Qs but answers are now obvious - one's motive, efforts, involvements, right or wrong decisions do count. All 4 can be simultaneous. Right or wrong decision may take time to surface but there is a wrong or right decision based on the above principles and nature knows it. Success/Failure - need to think and answer in next post.

Hope that clarifies most of the points.

Liked the discussions very much. Just enjoying the interactive posts on the forum.

God bless all,
Subhash

[mk]

Namonamah,
Subhashjee Namaste.

Thanks for a very lucid reply.

I look forward to your thoughts regarding success/failure.

I am not clear about being penalised for one's ability/incapability. Is not ability a reward in itself for some past action, and similarly incapability a punishment for some past action?

One late thought regarding A, B, and C. If B and C are both equally good and capable and suitable, would B be selected in preference to C if B chants VP while C does not?

Thanks Dr. Nutanjee for pointing out (one of ) my (many) misconceptions of JV.

Regards
Milind Khadilkar

[rakeshmahashabde]

       आदरणीय सुभाषजी व सभी
             सादर नमस्कार ,दिव्य बैंक ओपरेशन टोपिक से मेरे मन में उठ रहे सवालों का बहुत कुछ समाधान हुआ है परन्तु एक प्रश्न का मैं सीधा उत्तर चाहता हूँ | मैं जिस ऑफिस मैं कार्य कर रहा हूँ वहाँमेरा एक मित्र अपने जूनियर से चिल्लाकर बात करता है ऑफिस की किसी बात पर समझाने हेतु भी वह इसी तरह चिल्लाकर पूछता है व कई बार अपने साथियों से भी इसी टोन मैं बात करता है उसके इस आचरण से ऑफिस का वातावरण तो गन्दा होता ही है वह स्वयं भी परेशान रहता है  | मैं ऑफिस मैं भी अपने साथियों से जीवन विद्या की शिक्षा व विश्व प्रार्थना पर चर्चा करता रहता हूँ अतःअन्य साथी उसे समझाने हेतु मुझसे  कहते हैं कई बार समझाया   पर उसके आचरण मैं बदलाव कम ही आया फिर मुझे लगा की यह जिस टोन मैं बात करता है उसी टोन मैं बात करने से ही यह समझेगा व ऑफिस के वातावरण मैं भी सुधार होगा परन्तु ऐसा करने पर वातावरण मैं तो  सुधार  हो रहा है ,उसकी चिल्लाने की आदत मैं भी सुधार है पर मेरा मन अशांत होता है की जब मैं सब के भले के लिए प्रार्थना रहा हूँ तो मुझे उससे इस तरह बात नही करनी चाहिए |
           मेरा प्रश्न यह है किमेरे इस तरह करने से अन्य १० को तो शान्ति मिली पर मुझे व उसे शान्ति नही मिली | मेने उसका दिल तो दुखाया ही |क्या ऐसा करना उचित है यदि नही तो मैं चुप बेठायह देखता रहूँ व प्रार्थना करता रहूँ | 
   सदगुरुके चरणों मैं मेरा सादर नमन
              राकेश महाशब्दे   

[subhash]

Dear Rakeshji,

Good question. What you have explained is a real life situation with one possibility. It could have also been the case that the person has improved and you have not lost your peace of mind.

Let's talk about your peace of mind first (it appears that your case falls in second para but...):

If your conscience is clear you should not lose your peace of mind.

Assuming that you feel guilty about the person who does this ranting and your talking to him in public, etc. then you should treat it with DNYANA of you are doing it keeping the larger interests in mind - check with few colleagues to ratify that you did not make mistake (sometimes we think we are not wrong but others tell us the minute details). If you feel you should make friends with him again, you can talk it over with him one on one. Be candid and upright and am sure your honesty will be appreciated and admired.

If you are losing peace because you are speaking in louder voice yourself - against your PRAKRITI - may be you should stop it for some time. The other person has already got a message.

Try other ways of fixing the problem (Root cause - make the other person happy):
One more remedy can be to talk it out with him that "people give you a curse because you hurt them. It is not good for your health and laws of action and reaction, human body is a Divine Tape Recording Machine, etc."

Group counselling - on a cup of tea - 4-5 people tell him the same thing. This avoids impact of one person being the person belling the cat

Another way is interrupting him when he talks like that and say that "You seem to be angry and not in a good mood to talk. Let's stop this conversation. Come back to me when you are calmed down." If you do this to him couple of times and if couple of people do this to him, his behaviour has to change.

Of course, praying for him will help for sure. But as a JV follower you can think of other ways of coming out of this problem. Will encourage the people on this forum to help us further (CS can generate infinite ideas. We have so many good natured good intention people on this forum - I am sure better ideas will come out).


MK - answers to your post in a separate post.

God bless all,
Subhash