शिल्पकार तू

[mk]

नमोनमः

खालील मांडणी बरोबर आहे का?
धन्यवाद
-- मिलिन्द खाडिलकर

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             ।। तूच शिल्पकार ।।
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तूच कारणीभूत आहेस तुझ्या जन्माला ।
तूच निवडलेयत् तुझे मायबाप ।।
तूच ठरवलेस जन्मायचे केव्हा व कोठे ।
तूच मांडलीस तुझी तू कुंडली ।।

तूच निवडलीस स्वतःची जीवनविद्या ।
तूच शोधलास स्वतःचा सद् गुरू ।।
तूच ठरवलेस काय भले, काय बुरे ।
तुझे तू काय ते सर्व भोगलेस ।।

आणि,
आता,
बसला आहेस असा....
सुन्न ।।


असा कसा रे तू तुझ्या जीवनाचा शिल्पकार? ? ?  ?   ?   ?

[subhash]

MK,

सुन्न नको खिन्न नको
भिन्न होई रे तू
एकदा सद् गुरू शोधलेस ना
मग पूर्णपणे नाही तरी थोड़े तरी
त्यांनी संगीताल्याप्रमाणे वागून
टुन्न होई रे तू

God bless all,
Subhash

[mk]

Namonamah,
Thanks, Subhashjee,

Had somehow missed your reply. A fitting reply it is.

Regards
Milind Khadilkar

[MEENA PATKAR]

To,
Subhashjee,
Namaskar.

Very nice reply!


Meena
God bless all

[mk]

Namonamah,

On Shivjayanti day, the topic of the JV programme on Akashvani was, understandably, the greatness of Shivaji Maharaj.

After stressing the need to study and understand Shivcharitra in depth, the narrator said that it is a good example of "Tooch Aahes Tujhya Jeevanaachaa Shilpakaar". But according to JV, no one can escape being an example of that law.

Wasn't Shivaji a shilpakaar of many more lives than his own?

Is not Shivaji a shilpakaar of the lives of many of us?

Is not Pai Mahaaraaj a shilpakaar of the lives of most members of this forum?

Is not Mr. Chidambaram too a shilpakaar of each of our lives?

So, why "Tooch aahes....". Should it not be "Too suddhaa aahes ...."?

Please let me know.

Thanks and regards.

Milind Khadilkar

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskaar,

 I agree with you that leaders in the society influence the minds of many people. Kings and now political leaders and also people in the government have the power to change the life of people to certain extent. But when we think about any person's individual life, it depends on the person what path he should choose, which way he must behave and what actions he should carry out in order to achieve goal in his life.

There are many virtuous people in this world from whom we can learn many things. But mere their presence is not enough for us. Unless we decide to learn and assimilate good things from others we would not change.

As you think so you become is the law of nature. Our life revolves around our own thoughts and action is the truth of life.

Therefore what Shri. Satguru says that, "Tuch ahes tuzya jeevanacha shilpakar"- "you are the architect of your destiny" is very right.

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskaar Milindji,

When I realise that I can not be happy alone I start feeling that everybody must get happiness in their lives. It is like  If people around me( not only family and friends) are unhappy then I can not enjoy my happiness. So I want everybody to be happy. Therefore I feel better when I pray for other's happiness. When you will feel that your happiness lies in other's happiness you will automatically start praying for everybody till then you continue to do the same.  I am sure very soon you will feel selfish to pray only for yourself and you will start praying for everybody. I like honesty in your thinking.

[Ashishkulkarni_2000]

MKJee,

This refers to your post on 29th March.

The thinking expressed in the post is precisely the thinking that JV endeavours to eradicate.

Generally, human beings tend to attribute their du:khas to external causes and never attempt to seek causes in their own actions. The proposition that Shivaji Maharaj or P. Chidambaram are "shilpakaars" of others' lives is the first step towards "nashibvaad" or "daivavaad". If this proposition is assumed to be true, it follows that my destiny is not under my control. By extending this logic, the conclusion that destiny is an external factor controlling "my" life is reached. It then gives rise to the sense of helplessness in the face of happenings in life.

By saying "tuch ahes...." JV says that life, an endless battle, has to be fought and won. Each human can win the battle using the "Ishwari shakti"  residing in his or her being.

So, please get off the thinking that says" Too suddha ahes....." and accept " tuch aahes....". Your examples also convey a need to appreciate the difference between create and influence. Please think about it.

Till the time you do not accept the reality of "tuch ahes....", you cannot even begin to understand Jeevan Vidya [ assuming that you are trying to understand it in the first place].

Remember what Jack Welch said about destiny?

Love

Ashish

[mk]

Namonamah,
Thank you everybody.

One point (amongst a few) that I do not accept of JV is its premise/assumption is that people who believe in daivavaad/niyati discard prayatnavaad. From my limited experience with a limited circle of people, it is evident to me that people might be cursing others or destiny, but rarely do they use it as an excuse to stay put and not try.

Also, JV does not give me enough leeway to be the shilpakaar of my own destiny NOW. It burdens me with my Divya Bank Balance from previous lives. It does not let me know my bank balance now (So much for the RTI act! Even Swiss banks are more forthcoming), but pats me on the back and says "you are great. you will succeed". But if I do not succeed it conveniently lets me know that I did not succeed because I had I had a bad bank balance. It is like giving a shilpakaar no control over the choice of raw materials or tools. I find it illogical and more dangerous than the behaviour of the pure, God-fearing, destiny-cursing and yet striving and toiling people who do not follow JV.

Yes, I would accept JV's assertion of "Tooch..." if JV said: Yes, there is niyati, there is bad luck, it is a dog's world out there. But how does it benefit you by buckling under the situation? Face it, stand up to it, and work towards being happy."
No previous lives, no dushkarma of yesteryears, just the plain situation of the day and I pitted against it!

Probably closer to Phil McGraw's Life Laws.

Hope I am wrong!

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[subhash]

MK,

TATJS - Tooch Ahes Tuzya Jeevanacha Shilpakar is 100% true. Tried to scribble few points on your Qs:

1. Great people did change the lives of other people for better. Saints and Sages have done a great service to society. My Q is why can not for argument's sake Sant Shri Dnyaneshwar change the life of everybody on this earth? In spite of PASAYADAAN of SARVA SUKHI SARVA BHOOTI SAMPOORNA HOIJE why is the situation going from bad to worse? Do you have an answer for this? - JV points out to harsh reality. Saints and Sages and Satguru can impart knowledge. We need to align our actions in tune with that knowledge and then we will succeed. TATJS is a reality.

2. So much for past karmas. Do you remember what you had eaten in the afternoon of 1st Jan 2003? Probably not - but do you agree that your body will have a positive or negative impact of what food you ate that day and every day that followed and how much food and what quality of food, etc. Whether you remember or not, it will influence your health collectively. You were there on every one of these days and even today. Similar is the case with ChaitanyaShakti (CS). In every one of our births, each one of us have made impressions - good or bad - on our CS. We are responsible and accountable for this. You can not therefore disown your own past karmas. A person cannot say that I muderded somebody few years back - why should I face the punishment?

3. RTI. It is a systematized order that we do not remember our past births. Imagine a chaos it would have created in this world.

4. There is bad luck and JV acknowledges that. There is a NASHEEB according to JV. Satguru says - In spite of "Wisdom + sufficient efforts in the right direction" if you get some bad luck that is NASHEEB. There are different types of failures though. Some are out of our mistakes, some are due to our incapability and some are NASHEEB. There was no successful person without failure. JV recommends facing the failure with courage and overcoming the bad NASHEEB with good karmas. To me JV has been pragmatic in directing where we should draw a line between PARYATNAVAAD and DAIVAVAAD. Danger is thinking that there is some external force called NIYATI which is influencing our life. JV says that NIYATI is your own making and it influences your life. There is a big difference here as you would notice.

God bless all,
Subhash

[mk]

Namonamah,

Subhashjee Namaste,
Yes, in the sense that your post brings out, I am the shilpakaar of my destiny.... working on somebody else's blueprint (or whatever they use in sculpting).

You have written:
QUOTE
In spite of PASAYADAAN of SARVA SUKHI SARVA BHOOTI SAMPOORNA HOIJE why is the situation going from bad to worse?
UNQUOTE
I think the answer is:
"things going from bad to worse" is a law of nature. Only when a thing is sufficiently decayed can the other half of the cycle ("rejuvination") take place.... What must happen before germination can occur? Complete decay.

Kathopanisada says:
सस्यमिव मर्त्यः पच्यते    सस्यमिवाजायते पुनः ।

Whatever is true for life, is true for values, true for the state of society. There is no way you can bring back Satya-yug from treta-yug, without experiencing the decay of kali-yug.

What do the saints do? They are like rocks in a stream, moderating the decay so that society (vyavastha if you please) lasts its ordained lifetime. You will notice that the complaint of decay in values is an eternal complaint, grandparents complained, grandchildren too would complain.

Saints tell us to find the joy in this downstream ride. They tell us not to be pravaah patit. But they do not exhort us to ride against the stream. They tell us to flow with the stream, but at a pace that does not prevent us from enjoying the journey.

Slow down, they say, so that you are effectively moving the other way.

But the stream moves on. Downward. I suppose this is one situation where the Divine Downstream Charioteer could rightly tell the Eternal Passenger " न त्वं शोचितुम् अर्हसि"


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About my not remembering past lives: The vyavastha should take care to see that it should utilise my entire stock of paap-punya in deciding the circumstances of my birth. Then I don't need to bother about past lives. My life will then onwards be in my hands.  And others need not be afraid of the chaos memories of past lives could create.

This is my belief: There are no past lives; or if they are, they have no bearing on me beyond circumstances of my birth. The results of my endeavours are then totally in my hands, except that they are subservant to Niyati: the statistical law of nature. Prayatna +Daiva = Achievement.
------------------------------------

I reiterate: in my experience, even those who believe deeply in daivavaad do not abandon effort. Most people take both moderate success and moderate failure with equal humility. And I suppose acknowledging the indulgence of daiva ( here equated with Deva) is part of the Indian (and probably human) psyche.

Also, पराधीन आहे जगती पुत्र मानवाचा is often singled out in JV as an example of a wrong advise. But suppose it is used not in the nature of general advise but only as a solace in the face of extreme reverses. Don't you think that in extreme hardship one needs a straw to hang on to, rather than stark reprimands? I personally think that these lines can offer the support that "you have been the cause of this downfall" cannot.

I seek pardon for penning what I am not entitled to. The above is not based on deep study, not on any imbibed knowledge either. But I request your indulgence still.

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[MEENA PATKAR]

To,
MK,

QUOTE
Also, पराधीन आहे जगती पुत्र मानवाचा is often singled out in JV as an example of a wrong advise. But suppose it is used not in the nature of general advise but only as a solace in the face of extreme reverses. Don't you think that in extreme hardship one needs a straw to hang on to, rather than stark reprimands? I personally think that these lines can offer the support that "you have been the cause of this downfall" cannot.

UNQuote

You are saying in the extreme hardship one needs help.JV says,this is the time when we can get help only if we have balance of punya with us.And at that time we don't get any help , because we are bankrupt for punya at this moment.Earning of this Punya is completely in our hand.No other person can earn Punya for us.Therefore JV does not support the statement "Paradheen aahe Jagati..........................".

Once we know that we have been ourselves the cause of downfall (because we did not earn enough punya, which would have been possible by doing satkarmas, namasmaran, vishwaprartyhana etc.),then we get alert ,that we should start earning punya, and then we pay attention towards our own behaviour and start doing satkarmas , which ultimately changes the situation and start experiencing success everywhere.Even in cases of extreme hardships ,we overcome the problem safely & come out of it.for e.g.if we met with an accident, we come out of it with only ordinay scratches and everyone gets surprised how it became possible.
The tragic thing is ,People do not know,the importance of Punya (in true sense)and take support of the line "Paradheen aahe jagati...................",and keep on continuing their life as it is ,considering nothing is ther in our hand.JV has explained this , everything is in our hand only.


Thanks & regards,
Meena
God bless all.

[mk]

Namonamah,

Meenajee, namaste,

I accept what you say, but I feel the actual facts are:

If A is in deep trouble, some B comes and tells him "paraadheen...". B does that to provide solace only. I have seen many 'A's being benefitted by such obviously ridiculous advise. But I have never seen any such A use it as an excuse to shun prayatna. The point is, we Indians give only lip service to Daivavaad but actually practice Prayatnavaad. Saying such things for solace and accepting these words for solace are just a protocol. It is very similar to a mother beating the spot on the ground where her baby has fallen and hurt itself just to provide solace to the crying baby that it is not its fault.

I may, as usual, be wrong.

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[MEENA PATKAR]

To
MK,
Namaskar
This was also an example heard in one of the discourses.

Here it was said that , this is where the mother makes a mistake, by telling the baby ,"because of others fault you fell down".She should explain the mistake done by the baby, so that it will take care next time not to fall down.Otherwise , the baby will still keep on falling down & keep on blaming others always.
At this point of time if it is not possible to tell the truth (i.e. the true reason of falling),at least there should not be a false solace, which will bring the baby strong feeling that, whenever it falls , it is due to the other's mistake.

This is the reason ,JV does not support "Paradheen  Aahe Jagati................".By the  way the Song is nicely sung by Shri Sudheer Phadke ,great Singer,hats off to
him for singing.But the meaning is misleading the masses.

Thanking You,
Meena
God bless all.