What is the estimated number of naamdhaaraks?

[mk]

Namonamah.

What is the estimated number of naamdhaaraks? Where is the concentration, geographically? What is the estimated number of people upto whom JV has reached. After six months of my introduction to JV, I still have not found a personal acquaintance who is a JV follower. I accept that I am not particularly social, but I do have acquaintances and friends from all walks of life, from different age groups, and harbouring interesting variations of shraddhaas and andhashraddhaas! (Kindly don't take offence. I do value my association with members of this forum, but I am excluding them from this classification)

Thanks and regards.

Milind Khadilkar

[subhash]

MK,

Your Q is good. It allowed me to introspect on a much larger issue. It is very difficult to give numbers because we do not have any system or concept of membership or VARGANI. Almost all the activities are free. Satguru's programmes are heard by many on TV and Radio regularly. Hence whoever is listening, liking the philosophy and using it or part of it for their own life is out of our radar. Big learning from your Q.

Further, it is very difficult to define who is the "follower". JV does not have any "karmakands". JV is a way of life. The one who likes the philosophy or part of it, uses that in ones life and gets the benifit. There is no mechanism to track as yet.

However, we have thousands of people who are actively taking part in all activities, mostly, in Maharashtra, Goa and Belgaum. We have branches outside Maharashtra in Gwalior and Rajasthan, etc. Do have a presence outside India in US, Malaysia and UK but in traces. Estimated number is under 1 Mn for sure. However we have reached much more number - Satguru's programs on TV, Radio, Web (we get occassional queries from people around the world) and books (which are sold in millions to put in on record). Satguru has delivered over 10K+ lectures himself. Disciples who are entitled to give lectures are delivering it every day in many places. So we definitely have reached more people. But again no record.
 
Finally, please note that we are going against the flow ie nomal traditions and shraddhas. Many people like it but do not accept it openly due to fear of God or community. Hence it is hard task and challenge. Majority will  always follow traditions because Sanskars are done at tender age and they remain unless "YOU THINK".

God bless all,
Subhash

[mk]

Namonamah,
Subhashjee,

I have myself been aware of Pai Maharaj, Naam Sampradaay and JV vaguely since my college days or just after, just as I have been aware of the influence of the Late Shri Dongre Maharaj and the Swaadhyaay Parivaar and other aadhyaatmic movements. So I am sure the number must be sizable for the movement to have sustained so many years.

But there could be a record of the one ritual (arrhhh!!) of "taking/giving" anugraha. Some rough estimate of the formal anugraheet members?

Subhashjee, I do not accept your view:
QUOTE
Finally, please note that we are going against the flow ie nomal traditions and shraddhas. Many people like it but do not accept it openly due to fear of God or community. Hence it is hard task and challenge. Majority will  always follow traditions because Sanskars are done at tender age and they remain unless "YOU THINK".
UNQUOTE

The way traditions and shraddhaas ar thrown to the winds these days, I do not feel JV is going against the flow. Besides, there isn't sufficient community pressure in these liberal days to thwart people from joining JV. (Of course this is based on personal observation mainly limited to urban, educated, cosmopolitan, multi-religious societies. Of course there is no point in denying the subtle rejection of something new). I think JV is losing out not to traditional clutches but to the newer aadhyatmic denominations and to the persistant efforts of the religious conversion movements. Is it due to lack of flamboyance, or due to the directness of the message  or to the subtle expectation that followers of JV have to follow JV in toto? Maybe JV could have informal meetings or discussions across tables in Baristas or such coffee shops on aadhyaatmic topics as if they were the Page 3 topics of the day. Who knows, JV might become the next hep thing among the youth. Seriously, coffee shops of this kind could offer the right blend of ambience, exposure, opportunity and convenience for a price you deem fit to pay, though my personal acquaintance with Coffee shops is even lesser than my acquaintance with Adhyaatm.

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskaar,

Dear Milindji,

It is always pleasure to discuss about various ways to spread JV.

Actually JVM does ask all the anugrahits to fill up forms given to them and submit them to volunteers at the time of anugrah. I have seen this happening in Mumbai. I am not very sure about programmes which were held at Indapur, Ichalkaranji and other places. H. O. must be having some rough figure of anugrahits. I will try to get this figure.

But only taking anugrah is not enough to be qualified as naamdharaks unless they attend satsang or listen to pravachans regularly and do sadhana which is told by Shri. Satguru at the time of anugrah.

JVM has started Yuva Sanskar Kendras at many places in Mumbai. Now one center for yuvas is started at  Blind School at Ram Tekadi. Hadapasar near Pune.
Very recently ?Utkarsh ek pravas prog.? was held especially for yuvas. Satguru said that this prog. will be held every year. Before this Charkop Kandiwali branch- yuvas had arranged prog. in which  reliance personal manager was invited to guide youths.

 If yuvas understand that they themselves are responsible for their future, should abstain from all bad habits and live life in harmony with laws of nature and they owe responsibility towards society, family and nation then it would be extremely beneficial for them in leading happy successful life.   

JVM believes in silent revolution by changing thoughts. i.e. by slowly changing collective subconscious mind of people. The thoughts of people should be changed very slowly because some of the thoughts of JV especially on idol worship, Hindu religion etc are such that many people criticize and condemn them openly without knowing and understanding them. And all this creates bad propaganda for JV. I came across one incident at Amaravati.

JV started in labour class area first and then gradually it was spread to white collared people. Hence it was never advertised commercially. Satguru gave pravachans in Lalbag area for more than 40 years. Only once a year or so he used to visit Konkan and sometimes Goa. Once he had tour of U.K , USA and Canada few years back. It is only since last 15-18 years that JV is propagated in other areas. Now we are going outside Maharashtra very often and soon we will find many naamdharaks in other states in very large scale. Hopefully very soon number of overseas naamdharaks will be increased in very large proportion as more and more children of naamdharaks are settling abroad and they will surely help in canvassing JV abroad.
  Regarding holding discussions at coffee shops like Barista I feel that though ambiance is very good at such places, JV naamadharaks mostly belong to middle class income group and they hardly visit such places. I am told by my daughter who is 24 yr old that these are very costly places and youngsters go there for privacy and to meet their friends.The ambiance undoubtedly is very good as told by Milindji but discussions or large meetings can not be held over there. The youths which visit such places belong to very high income group and belong to affluent class. When we visit area belonging to high income group during sampark pheri of Granth Dindi the response is always poor. It is the lower middle class income and middle class income group people who wish to know the ways of correcting themselves and how to achieve higher goal in their life.

When I discussed with some youngsters regarding not attending satsang, they told me that they would appreciate if sitting arrangement is on chairs and like Milindji said the ambiance of satsang should be better like a closed hall etc. We must remember that we do not charge any fees to attend satsang right now and we can not afford better place and arrangement but as the days will pass, we should be ready to change ourselves and start satsang at better places; especially like Milindji said if we wish to attract  urban and cosmopolitan crowd.. For such equipments we should shelve some amount of money voluntarily or pay for such arrangement turn by turn.
 

[MEENA PATKAR]

To,
Milind Khadilkar,
Namaste

Posting  reply after a very long time on the query asked by you long back.

What Subhashjee & Dr.Nutanmadam has said is the perfect answer.
I would like to add a little.
Jeevanvidya Mission is not much interested in increasing the number of members of Naamdharakas.Number of anugrahits can be found out at the admin. office at Borivali because a form is filled up at the time of taking anugraha just for the sake of record of the date of anugraha.

Jeevanvidya Mission is interested in spreading the knowledge.It aims at "Ghar tethe Jeevanvidya"i.e. it aims at JV knowledge should reach to each & every house.Then people to become a member or not , is everyone's personal decision.JV only gives the knowledge of the truth of life,which is based on science & fullproof evidence.And insists to follow the  knowledge of JV (i.e. to follow the laws of Nature as explained by JV ,to follow according to the Smarani etc.) so that the person following the knowledge of JV achieves  complete happiness, success & prosperity in his life.(Sukh,Yash & Samruddhi).

It is a silent revolution as said by Nutantai and it really innovative in nature & against the flow as said by Subhashjee.Both these things lead to the slow movement.

It is a firm Solution for the whole human race  believing more in QUALITY than the QUANTITY.



Thanks & regards,
Meena
God bless all.

[mk]

Namonamah,
Meenajee Namaste,

I fully accept that in a movement like JV, actual numbers are not important. But it does not harm us if we know  the approximate number (or does it? ).

I feel some figures should be easily available:
1. No. of people taking anugraha
2. No. of people who have taken anugrah
3. No. of persons who have taken the basic course.
4. No. of people who have taken the advanced course
5. No. of branches
6. No. of office bearers and regulars associated with the HO and the branches.
7. No. of copies of books sold

(Some of the above can be guessed by browsing through JV's website)
Not knowing these numbers will definitely not harm. But knowing these numbers also will not harm. It is a matter of one's own curiosity level.

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[MEENA PATKAR]

To
MK,
Namaskar
I appreciate your curiosity.

As I said in earlier post,JVM has it's administration office at Borivali.You can get any information from there.

There is no point of harming ,when knowing or not knowing the information you have asked.But you should apprach a right way (i. Borivali office).

How can you get this information on "eAbhyasvarga online classroom".People who are trying to solve the queries regearding the JVM Philosophy , do not have all this record
by hearted.

I think you are smart enough to get the address of Borivali Office.Or you can enquire about this through e mailing to Borivali Office.


Thanking You
Meena
God bless all

[mk]

Namonamah,
Thank you Meenajee for your kind advise.

My post was not for the information itself, but to know whether JV members are curious about the numbers. It is good in one sense that they are not.

And even I am not very serious about the exact numbers: approximations would do. I am still curious about the approximate numbers (if any) in the minds of JV followers.

I will note the impressions that have formed in my mind:
1. No. of people taking anugraha: between 100 - 250 every year
2. No. of people who have taken anugrah: approx. 7000
3. No. of persons who have taken the basic course. approx 3000
4. No. of people who have taken the advanced course: approx 500
5. No. of branches: 50-75
6. No. of office bearers and regulars associated with the HO and the branches.: roughly 500
7. No. of copies of books "sold" to end readers: totaling between 75000-1.5 lakh (not including electronic media)

I also feel that JV followers, and those who have deep reverence for Pai Mahaaraaj, number between 3 and 5 lakh.

Please note that these are NOT estimates (I do not have any basis for the above numbers) but IMPRESSIONS. I may be responsible for my destiny, but I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE IMPRESSIONS I HAVE. I HAVE NOT CREATED THEM.

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[MEENA PATKAR]

To,
MK
Namaskar,
I don't know what are you going to do with these IMPRESSIONS,but I think these are very low .I do not know the  exact nos. and not really interested to give any appox. no. But,I am sure it is a very large no. than what your IMPRESSIONS are.

Still you can have full information by communicating the BOrivli Head OIffice.There all the records are kept .JV has yearly audit and has got AAA rating in the Audit.

I do not think any of the JV member will continue discussing this further .Because JV members are busy in taking the knowledge of JV to the world ,they are always thinking about how to bring the happiness to each & every house of the world.

JV members have only two aims behind this ,these are,
1 .The whole world becomes happy ,
2 . Our Nation of India ,goes on the top of the World.

Anyway , you have all the liberty to have any Impression .It is your own personal matter.It
does not make any difference for JV members because you will find not a single member has time to worry about increasing the no. of members.

Thanking you,
Meena
God bless all.

[rakeshmahashabde]

   
       प्रति ,
     
    आदरणीय  मीना जी .                                                                                                                                                                             
       सादर नमस्कार आपने बहुत ही सही लिखा है कि , जीवन विद्या के मेम्बर को इतना समय नही है कि वह गिनती करे |उसे तो   केवल  सदगुरुकि इच्छा व जीवन विद्या का संकल्प -- इस संसार का प्रत्येक प्राणी सुखी हो ,  को पूर्ण करना है  | जब लक्ष्य संसार  का है तब कुछ लाख या करोड़  कि गिनती से क्या लेना  जब तक इस संसार का एक भी प्राणी सुखी होने से बचा रहेगा तब तक जीवन विद्या का संकल्प पूर्ण नही होगा | मेरा यह मानना   है कि जीवन विद्या के विचार व विश्व प्रार्थना इतनी अधिक प्रभावी है कि जिसने भी इसे एक बार भी जानने का प्रयास किया है वह प्रभावित हुआ है | इसका अनुभव मुझे बहुत अच्छी तरह हुआ है | मध्य प्रदेश के निवासियों के लिए या हिन्दी भाषी लोगों के लिए सदगुरु का नाम व जीवन विद्या का नाम कुछा माह पूर्व तक एकदम नया था पर आज वह स्थिति नही है आज जब मैं किसी से मिलने जाता हूँ व जीवन विद्या के बारे मैं बतलाता हूँ तो वह कहते है कि हाँ  नाम तो सुना है | मेरे मोबाइल पर एक माह मैं  लगभग  ८-१० फोन अपरिचितों के आते हैं तथा प्रार्थना सी डीया पुस्तकं हेतु चर्चा करते है | अतः   जब एक शहर मैं कुछा माह मैं ही   यह स्थिति है तब देश कि गणना कोण करे   |    सदगुरु के चरणों मैं नमन कर यही प्रार्थना है कि वह हमें जीवन विद्या का संकल्प पूर्ण करने कि शक्ति व सामर्थ्य प्रदान करे
       विठ्ठल   विठ्ठल 
            राकेश महाशब्दे   
 
     

[Deepak_jvm]

Dear Milindjee and All,
Interesting questions.
Very good replies by members. Very nice reply by Rakeshjee.

Though we are not worried about numbers, definitely we to are interested in recording the number of people who take anugrah.

We try to collect as much as possible details of the anugrahits. However exact data is not available with me yet.

I can answer your question related with number of books in partial.
"7. No. of copies of books "sold" to end readers"

We were writing edition (reprint) number on every book. We expected this type of questions will be asked by somebody, especially analysts like you.
Hence for the benefit of new readers we have started writing books printed till last edition on each book.
For example, Based on the few books in front of me I can provide details as follows:

1) Dnyaneshancha Sandesh - First Edition 1961. Current Edition: 22nd published in January 2008. Books printed until Jan 2008 = 162400 ( Hundred and sixty two thousand four hundred). I am writing in words also to eliminate any doubt in your mind about correctness of the number.

2) Namacha Nandadeep - First Edition 1963. Current Edition: 20th published in June 2007. Books printed until June 2008 = 122000 ( Hundred and twenty two thousand ).

3) Sukhacha Shodh ani Bodh - First Edition - 1992. Current Edition: 27th published in Nov. 2006. Books printed until Nov. 2006 = 118940 ( Hundred and eighteen thousand nine hundred and forty )

4) Manasacha Janma Kashasathi - First Edition - 1998. Current Edition: 21st published in Aug. 2006. Books printed until Aug. 2006 = 300000 ( Three Hundred thousand )

These are details of just four books. For you information, I have selected just four books randomly. If we add all other books, number of books printed/sold till date could be millions in number.

May God bless all,
Deepak

[mk]

Namonamah,
Thank you Deepakjee for the figures.

I am looking at this not simply as an analyst, but in the broader context of a question that has troubled me for years: what is the social and economic cost (and hence feasibility) of "andhashraddha nirmoolan"?

As others too have pointed out, the actual numbers are meaningless. But I feel we need to keep track of numbers  as a measure of growth over time. I am sure that if growth in numbers falls, or is not significant, as a percentage of the growing population, it should be a matter of concern for all. It could be a reflection not on the quantum of our efforts, but on the quality (direction) of our efforts. I would say that QUANTITY is a good measure of QUALITY, not in every case, but in this specific case.

I respect the opinion of the members that numbers are irrelevant

About the number of books printed, I was curious for one reason: many books are given as presents, some are purchased in bulk by libraries etc. I am sure the total number of books that have reached the potential readers is in millions. But the number I am wondering about is different. That is why I specifically asked:

QUOTE
7. No. of copies of books "sold" to end readers: totaling between 75000-1.5 lakh
UNQUOTE (emphasis added)


I think the above "sold" figure would be much smaller. But it would have immense significance.

Thanks again, and regards

Milind Khadilkar