Changing with the times

[mk]

Namonamah,

As I am understanding bits and pieces of JV, I find that there have been subtle changes to the JV philosophy over the past fifty years. I am not in a position to list them here (I was not consciously looking for changed thought), except for the one that prompted me to write this post. How many times should we chant VP? More the better is an acceptable answer if this question were rhetorical. I have come across various numbers starting from 108 to the one now advocated, i.e. 1000.

What has caused this progression? In line with the experience of agriculturists with pesticides (pests becoming more and more resistant) does this imply that our inner minds (antarmans, subconscious minds) have become more resistant to VP?

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[subhash]

MK,

Satguru has given more and more during past 55+ years. I do see JV changing for better. I see two-three books that revolutionized the way JV is told to everybody - HEECH KHARI MOORTIPOOJA ANI HAACH KHARA DHARMA, ANDHAAR ANDHASHHRADHHECHA, MANASACHA JANMA KASHASATHI, SHARIR SAKSHAT PARAMESHWAR. However there is no inconsistency in SIDDHANTAS and that is so beautiful.

Earlier Satguru experimented with NAAMASMARAN for more than 30 years. He then realized that this is not working as effectively. So he invented VP.

Original form of VP was not having AROGYA DE and RAKSHAN KAR but I distinctly remember after the bomb blast in Mumbai Satguru added RAKSHAN KAR. Do not remember when AROGYA DE was added.

Satguru has also changed the style of DIVYABODH and DIVYASADHANA. While in earlier days it was more traditional now it is much different and easier.

1000 - Good thing about it is now it is objective target. Just do 1000 a day. Instead of reading it negatively I would read it much differently. Sant Tukaram has said that SAHE OZE TAISE TYALA DEU. Satguru has entrusted more responsibility on NAAMDHARAKs. They are now finding many more people who can do it as many times!

God bless all,
Subhash

[shambhagwat]

Earlier Satguru experimented with NAAMASMARAN for more than 30 years. He then realized that this is not working as effectively. So he invented VP.

Sarvanna Namaskar,

Namaskar SubhashDada,

I was awaiting this sentence since 29 April 2006.  My so many queries have been now cleared.  Thanks SubhashaDada.

I totally agree with the meaning of this sentence.  Namasmaran is effective for those who have got some sanskar from previous birth as a base.  And this firm base only give the patients to namadharak to follow it for year(s). But the ordinary people cannot keep there faith in it for a long time which results in giving up namasmaran.

My experience is the same.  Namasmaran took so many years of my life to let me learn, how it works in my life.   On 29th April, I was guided to study jeevanvidya and I started it from the same date.  VP is in simple words and we can imagine the meaning while chanting and therefore in early stages of all ordinary people irrespective of their cast, education, age, religion, it helps more than Namasamaran.  VP enable the ordinary people to reach upto take off stage.  But when we archive this take off stage,  every person who have got Divya Bodh and Divya Sadhana, must do his/her  own efforts.  I strongly feel that he/she can do that my knowing the meaning of "Nivant"

It is very much difficult for me to express in English.  I feel that I could have been expressed this better in Marathi.  However one more plus point I have to add.  Because of posting in English,  my posts are now very short (due to constrain of my English language) and so many readers will be Happy because they will not have to spare more time in reading my lengthly posts.

Sarvanna Namasakar.  Sarvanna Shubhecha.

[subhash]

Shambhagwat,

VP serves one more purpose. When Satguru imparts DIVYABODHA and teaches us DIVYASADHANA (process of experiencing God) - VP acts as a SMARANI (Generally your SMARANI reminds you of NAAMASMARAN. Here your VP is reminding you of doing a SMARAN). This happens because VP has become our SWABHAVA and now we also know the DIVYASADHANA - the process. What NAAMADHARAK does is - experience God through VP. Progress is very fast at this level. Hence Satguru refers to this as AKASHMARGA - the fastest. BHAVASMARAN IS DEVAALA PAHAT PAHAT (ANUBHAVAT - while experiencing God) KELELE SMARAN. This manifests into BHAVA or temporary AWASTHA where we do everything in his SMARAN. This is important step since we can experience the bliss inherent in ourselves (SWANANDA) through this process. But your JEEVABHAVA is so strong that you are thrown back into SANSARA (all that which you do based on AVIDYA).

Through consistent contemplation of God you reach the realization. Here JEEVABHAVA is non-existent and DEVABHAVA is SWABHAVA. VP helps you here as well specifically to be consistent. At this level you are God. DEV HOUN DEVACHE SMARAN KARANE (DIVYASMARAN).

VP is much more useful than many people know and think it is.

Happy that we are entering into advanced JV at times on this forum.

Lucky are those people who recite VP as and when they are mentally free.

God bless all,
Subhash

[shambhagwat]

Namaskar to All

Namasakar to SubhashDada,

I agreed.  But the advance stage which you are describing is not concerned with the words but the essence or "Bhav" only.  The words may "Vitthal" or "Harri" or "Govind" or "VP".  It does not matter.  The words which is become a habit of our subconscious mind becomes the "Sangat" in the further stages of progress.  Jeevan Vidya gives importants to VP and therefore all JV members who are chanting VP for so many years, should strictly follow your words. 

Now taking into consideration of my present stage, I think, I am looking at all these words, which we chant for last so many years,  are the "Hunkar" of the parameshwar.  In other words I can not give up Namasmaran at this stage.  Last so many years I am engaged in Namasmaran.  My age is now 51.  It is not good for me to give it up and start VP as a fresh.  Please allowe me to go ahead with namasmaran.  JV has given me lot of things.  So many concepts have been cleared.  The path is very much clear to me.  Some hurdles which I was facing has been removed by JV.  JV is the "Dyaneshawari" written in the language which belongs to 21st century.  This is my whole heartedly feeling.  But I totally agree that unlike namasmaran, VP uplift the common man with utmost speed.  I advocated VP to some nearby people including my relatives and they are benefited more quickly than I (i.e. with the help of namasmaran which I used)

All JV members are lucky.  Just follow the words of Sadguru.  Go beyond the words.  Find out the meaning of "Nivant".  When you will get the exact meaning of it, the doors of further progress will be opened for you.  Sadguru also want this.  I have written on this subject by giving reference.  Chanting VP in free time is only the first step to start the journey.  Thereafter, what we should do with more efforts is explained by sadguru in his various "Granths"

Thank you, I always remain.  Thank you to all.

Namaskar to all,  Namaskar to everyone.
Countless gratitudes towards Sadguru.  Tyana Sashtang pranipat.

[Ashishkulkarni_2000]

Dear Milind

I think Sadguru answered your question on Sahyadri Channel last sunday. You should chant VP till - "raktat bhinli pahije". I for myself have made a sankalp of 1 million VPs bu 01.01.2010.

Love

Ashish

[subhash]

Ashish,

Think big. Great Sankalpa.

Shyamji,

You can do ISHWARSMARAN using the whatever name of God you are chanting. All you need to do is condition your mind to do SMARAN at every chanting of the name. Satguru says that VITTHAL is a mantra (magic word), NAAM (Divine thought - e.g. RAAM is SARVASUKHACHA ARAAM, VITTHAL - VISHWI THASAVALA TO VITTHAL, etc.), BHAV (explained by Satguru in NAAMACHA NANDADEEP), DEV (SMARANA OF GOD HIMSELF). So you can operate at any of these levels.

Another meaning of BHAVA is SAMBANDHA or relation.

We can have multiple BHAVAS as explained by Satguru:

1. MI BHAKTA TU DEV
2. MI TUZA AUNSH - e.g. TU MAZI MAULI MI VO TUZA TANHA, or KIRAN and SOORYA, etc.
3. MI ANI TU EKACH
4. TUCH AHES (MI NAAHICH)
5. TUCH MI ZALAYAS, TUCH SARVA ZALAYAS (VASUDEVAHSARVAMITI)

So every time we chant the name of God at the beginning of VP - you can chant your NAAM at the beginning. e.g. if you are chanting the name of RAAM then you can say HEY RAAMA, SARVANNA CHANGLI BUDDHI DE, etc. But while you say RAAMA you can do any one of the stages given by Satguru - WORD, NAAM, BHAV or DEV. Of course for the last one you need to learn SADHANA from Satguru (SHABDE PARE CHA NISHNAAT).

Gist - you can still do Prarthana. Number is not important - ALAKSHA-KADE LAKSHA ASLE MHANAJE POORE.

If you do not want to give up the current NAAM - please at least do this quality thing for some time of the day. It is effective. Specially good for lazy people like me who think they have lot of work!

God bless all,
Subhash

[shambhagwat]

ALAKSHA-KADE LAKSHA ASLE MHANAJE POORE.

Namaskar to All,

Namaskar SubhashDada,

I used the word "Bhav" to explain my thoughts.  I mean the word "Bhav" has not much more importance in my post.  I want to go beyond that word.

For your above sentence I have used the word "Hunkar" in my earlier post.  In other words whenever Namasmaran is in progress may be cautiously or unconsciously, I try to look at it as "Shivacha Hunkar".  I am doing this experiment for some days on the basis of "Tooch Ahes Tujhya Jeevanacha Shilpkar".  And I feel that unlike "Bhav", this method is uplifting me with speed.

I again feel that I am not able to use proper words in English language.  hence I cannot explain this in more details.  Only one thing I have to mention that what I am trying is totally based on the above referred Granth.  That's All.

Sarvanna Namaskar. Sarvanna Shubhecha.

[mk]

Namonamah
Dear Ashishjee,
Thanks for your kind wishes.



I am afraid to take any commitment of the kind you have done. I am sure you will complete your target much before 01.01.10

Because chanting VP a certain number of times did not cause me much effort, (I did not try beyond 600 for lack of mentally free time)  I am afraid I do not appreciate its worth yet. But I will learn.

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskaar,

Dear Ashish,

Very nice sankalp! All the best wishes from all of us! Recently I met Mrs. Vithaale at Bhuasaval. She has enchanted more than seven and half lakhs VPs since 2004. She enchants 6-7 thousand VP.s per day. Shri. Satguru knows her and has asked her to take abhyas varg and start upasana kendras wherever it is possible for her.

[mk]

Namonamah,

Six-seven thousand is amazing!! How much time would it roughly require, assuming that Mrs. Vithaale is not doing it as her major activity but as an accompaniment to some other activity or work. I would find this number unthinkable. In my daily work--nay, in my entire waking day,-- thinking on specific issues, speaking, listening, reading, writing occupy most of my time and I find I cannot chant VP while doing any of the above activities. I chant VP in the morning (stop when I have to listen to the JV radio programme), during commute, and somehow manage a number of 400 or so. Is it possible to chant VP while your mind is focussed elsewhere?

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskaar,

Milindji,

Even I was amazed when she told me about her no of VPs per day. I tried to ask her how she manages to enchant these many VPs?  She told me that initially she had to deliberate efforts to do enchant VPs but now she is in a state where it goes on involuntarily continuously without any efforts. She sleeps only for 3-4 hours at night and that is sufficient for her.

This enchanting which goes on in her mind is in pashyanti vani and it is in subconscious mind by the grace of Satguru.  It is because of her devotion to him and desire to do Satguru-seva and earlier great efforts which she has put to do continuous enchanting of VP. Such type of enchanting is in fast, regular speed and it goes on even while you talk or work. Great surrender to Satguru is required to achieve this stage. Enchanting stops during deep sleep but starts as soon as you are awake. Counting VPs of this could be summing up to six to seven thousand per day.
 

[subhash]

MK,

in one minute I can do 8. Of course not in the same rhythm as Devaki Pandit one which takes almost 30 seconds for 1 prayer and Satguru's voice prayer which takes 17 seconds per prayer. In 1 hour I count 450 - some who do MANASJAAPA count 10-12 in a minute but I am not there yet. I complete the 1000 prayers in 2.5 hours flat. Wish I could get some more free time in a day. On some days I do not complete the 1000 but try to average it out. Some people can do it while they are working - Watchmans, home makers, etc. So we can say they have 12 hours free. I believe it is doable then.

On another note, experience the maximum number of prayers you can do in a day on a holiday. You will find that it is difficult to go beyond 3K (at least for me!). The reason lies in subconscious mind again.

Once you try doing it with a target you will find opportunities for doing it aplenty.

God bless all,
Subhash

[mk]

Namonamah,
Thanks Subhashjee,

I find that when I am chanting VP, there are two chants going on. I do not know where the other one originates from. But when one is on "bhala kar", the other has reached its end and is waiting for the first one to catch up. This probably slows down the process for me. However, if I try to do anything consciously about this, the first chant goes haywire and I miss out the wording.

Probably a case of schizophrenia!

Regards
Milind Khadilkar

[subhash]

MK,

I read from your post that you are chanting the VP in Hindi. Do you want to try it in Marathi - assuming it is your mothertongue? Another thing you can do is do MANASJAP (PASHYANTI-VAANI) wherein you chant the prayer without any movement of your tongue or throat - just as we think in our minds. If both these things do not work then may be we will have to ask some senior people in JV about the answer or finally Satguru himself.

Do let us know.

God bless all,
Subhash