कोहम्

[mk]

Namonamah,
Gauravjee has started  a new topic on my being the instrument for my own upliftment. Before I can talk of that, I want to be sure of the following:
According to JV, what does "I" or "me" refer to? To me in this life, or to me in this and all past lives, or me in all lives: past, current and future?

Also, what is I? My body, my mind, or both? Yesterday's me is different from today's. So which is the invariant me?

Thanks and regards

Milind Khadilkar

[Gaurav Chavan]

Namaste

I or Me you are referring, is the one element which flows through very thing in this universe.
This is the pure, original I/ME. In parmartha it is known as JANEEV (SHUDHA JANEEV +SHUDHA NENEEV).

This Pure I need some kind of subject to manifest. That is UPADHI means Body.
And because of reason unknown I becomes false I.

And this false I/ME is body + Mind.

I must say Millindjee you are very clever. You never answer the question directly. 
I would really appreciate if you answer the questions.
I believe that you want to know more and understand more, but before knowing what you know it will be very difficult to explain JV?s point.
So please don?t mind if there is cross question for you.


Regards
Gaurav Chavan
 

[dr.nutanpol]

नमस्कार,


कोणाही व्यक्तीला जिला अजून आत्मज्ञान झाले नाही तिच्या बाबतीत मी म्हणजे-

मी = देह बुध्दी + (माया + समाजाने तू शरीर आहेस-शरीराचे नाव म्हणजे तू आहेस हा केलेला संस्कार) + अशुध्द अंतर्मन + शुध्द अंतर्मन + अशुध्द बहिर्मन + चैतन्य शक्ती (सत् + चित् + आनंद म्हणजेच शुध्द जाणीव स्वरूप शुध्द नेणीव व त्यांना व्यापलेला दिव्य आनंद) असे असते. ( स्वानंद योग-भाग-२)

अशुध्द अंतर्मन व अशुध्द बहिर्मन -  बहिर्मन  व अंतर्मन अशुध्द होते कारण जाणीव जशी खालच्या दिशेने प्रवास करते तस तशी ती गढूळ होत जाते.

शुध्द अंतर्मनात जाणीवेला फक्त असण्याची जाणीव असते-असिपद व ती स्वरूपाच्या सहवासात असते. (चैतन्य शक्तीच्या- ईश्वराच्या सहवासात असते.)

 जाणीव  एक एक पायरी खाली उतरून हळूहळू जास्त प्रमाणात गढुळ होत जाते. जेव्हा पासून तिचा प्रवास सुरू होतो व त्यानंतर जन्मोजन्मी हा प्रवास सुरू असतो.

विराट चैतन्याच्या सागरात जाणीव प्रथम १) असण्याच्या अवस्थेत असते. ही जाणीव नंतर  स्फुरू लागते.  २)स्फुरणारी जाणीव नंतर  समोरील दृष्याला व्यापते व  ३) द्रष्टा-पहाणारा या पदावर आरूढ होते त्यानंतर ती ४) ज्ञाता या पदावर आरूढ होते. या पदावर असताना ती चांगले-वाईट, हे अमुक हे तमुक अशी चिकित्सा करते. त्यानंतर ती ५) ध्याता या पदावर आरूढ होते तेव्हा कोणते चांगले व कोणते वाईट याची चिकित्सा करते व हवे ते कसे मिळवावे व नको ते कसे टाळावे याचा विचार करू लागते. ६)  यानंतर जाणीव कर्ता होते व ती हवे ती मिळवण्यासाठी प्रत्यक्ष कार्य करू लागते. ७) भोक्ता या पदावर आरूढ होऊन ती नंतर हव्या असलेल्या विषयांचा आनंद आपल्या ईंद्रियांतून घेऊ लागते. (नामाचा नंदादीप-नाम आणि सहजावस्था तसेच सच्चिदानंद सी. डी.)

अशा प्रकारे जाणीवेचे रंग  पालटत जातात.

नामस्मरण, विश्वप्रार्थना, दिव्य बोध आणि दिव्य साधनेच्या सहाय्याने जाणीवेचा उलटा प्रवास सुरू होतो. आणि अंतिमत: तिला आपल्या स्वरूपाचे ज्ञान होते.

यासाठी जाणीवेला जागृती, स्वप्न, सुषुप्ति या अवस्था ओलांडून तुर्या या अवस्थेत प्रवेश करावा लागतो व  तेथे स्थिर झाल्यावर ती उन्मनी अवस्थेत प्रवेश करते. या अवस्थेत तिला स्वरूपाचे ज्ञान होते.  या विषयी अधिक माहिती कृपया अमृत मंथन या ग्रंथात वाचावी.

हा विषय स्वानंद योग भाग-२ मध्ये काही प्रमाणात शिकवला जातो तसेच हे ज्ञान श्री. सदगुरू मुखातून प्रत्यक्ष दिव्य बोध-दिव्य साधना देताना दिले जाते. हा जीवनविद्येचा अतिसुक्ष्म भाग असून तो  श्री. सदगुरूंना शरण जाऊन शिकण्याचा भाग आहे.

[subhash]

MK,

You have asked the most fundamental question. Can be many answers depending upon your locus standi. Here is one:

I (Shariracha apekshetil) = ChaitanyaShakti (CS - Life Force) + Body (Includes KARMENDRIYE, DNYANENDRIYE, ANTARENDRIYE except Ego - which is taken separately) + Manifested Ignorance (JeevaPan = Visar + Bhram + Kalpana) + Impressions (Sanskaras - Name + MI AMUK + MI ASA + all past birth sanskaras)

Impressions are gathered all through - right from the first birth till this one. All sanskaras are part of I.

Technically speaking everything is CS - Body is nothing but manifestation of CS, etc. Invariant is the first part of the equation - CS. Next parts are all variants.

God bless all,
Subhash

[mk]

namonamah,
Thanks everybody.

The discussion invites me to say "I have been the architect of my destiny all through. I will be the architect of my destiny from now on only to the extent my past allows". Is that right?

By the way, did I have only previous janmas this janma, and next janmas, but no FIRST janma and no LAST janma? One more topic...

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskar,

Milindji, You will always remain the architect of your destiny as per your free will, decision and your actions. At any moment in your life you can decide and start doing actions which will change your destiny. It is not dependent on your past  actions in earlier births. I do not whether you really meant that your future actions can possibly depend on your actions in earlier birth.

[subhash]

MK,

>> The discussion invites me to say "I have been the architect of my destiny all through. I will be
>>the architect of my destiny from now on only to the extent my past allows". Is that right?

Not right. Like Dr. Pol has already answered, your future is what you make of it. Past karmas do
haunt you but what you do now is more important because it does three things:
1. Deposits good impressions - useful for future - PUNYA will get converted to SHUBHA-NIYATI
2. Pumps up good impressions from the stack - thus changing the future in your favour - Inviting SHUBHA-PRARABDHA from SANCHIT
3. Pushes back ripe bad impressions from PRARBDHA into SANCHIT

The best strategy is to keep on doing SATKARMAs - meaning to live life in tune with laws of nature.

>>By the way, did I have only previous janmas this janma, and next janmas,
>>but no FIRST janma and no LAST janma? One more topic...

No. Chaitanya is ANAADI (AN + AADI = beginningless). It was always there. It is and it will be there. EKOHAM BAHUSYAM PRAJAYAYEMA - this SPHOORTI - transforms ChaitanyaMahasagar into CHAITANYASHAKTI (CS) MAHASAGAR. ANANTA KOTI BRAHMANDE - infinite universe and infinite creation is but a manifestation of this CS. Hence CS does have a beginning and thus all JEEVATMA's have beginning. There was something like first birth. In that birth - Satguru says - there was no SANCHIT and no PRARABDHA. There was only KRIYAMAN.

You are right in saying that there is no last janma. Because CS is creating more and more universes and it is expanding - TAISA MAJA EKACHA VISTAAR TE HE JAAG.

By the way, assuming that you got the answer for your original question - KOHAM?

God bless all,
Subhash

[mk]

Namonamah,
Thanks, Subhashjee for your concern.
QUOTE
By the way, assuming that you got the answer for your original question - KOHAM?

UNQUOTE

I think I have got JV's answer to the question. Now onto the quest for MY answer....

Regards
Milind Khadilkar

[subhash]

MK,

There is only one answer. Do let us know if you think your answer is different and then we can discuss on the forum.

God Bless All,
Subhash

[subhash]

MK,

sufficient time has elapsed and hope you are now convinced on JV answer of KOHAM?

God bless all,
Subhash

[mk]

Namonamah,
Subhashjee Namaste,

So, am I correct in assuming that I is nitya-nutan? Something that keeps on changing even as you examine it, ponder over it? And is thus unknowable?Slips through,yet always remains within your grasp.



I don't have MY answer yet.

Thanks and regards,
Milind Khadilkar

[MEENA PATKAR]

To,
MK,
Namaskar


According to me , " Koham"is "Soham".  "Mee to aahe."

Almighty God has manifeasted himself and we came into existance.It is knowable ,with the help of honest studies ,under the  guidance of Shri Sadguru (Sadguruni dileli saadhana).


Thanking you,
Meena
May God bless all.