Laws of the land and Natural law

[mk]

Namonamah,

As JV says, we cannot be at fault with the laws of nature, unless we want to get punished.

As citizens, we also have to follow the law of the land.

Can any member point out instances where the law of the land conflicts with the law of nature? What does JV advise in such a case?

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[MEENA PATKAR]

To,
MK,
I think if one sincerely followes the laws of nature, the laws of land will be followed by him automatically.

Would you be specificabout any conflict you have come across? let us try to study it with referance to the above.

I think JV people only stick to the laws of nature , other things are automatically happened/done in their lives which do not raise any conflict with any other law.

Thanks & regards
Meena
May God bless all.

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskaar MK and all,

Satguru always asks all namdharaks to follow the law of land.

The person may inherit the property from his relative as per his/her wish or by his lawful right, if sadhak knows that this property is not earned by fair means then JV advises to leave the right of properly or donate it to social organization like JVM. Spiritual organization like JVM can take care of such inauspicious action but individually it is not possible. (Explanation given by Shri Satguru)

[mk]

Namonamah,
Dr. Nutanjee Namaste,

I am afraid your answer does not directly address my question, though what you say is itself very useful.

I am trying to choose some apt examples (from amongst many) of conflict between divine law and law of the land.


Thanks and regards,
Milind Khadilkar

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskar MK and all,

I am not getting any examples where thoughts of JV are in contrary with laws of land. As already said JV emphasise that laws of land should always be followed.
 
  But many a times JV talks about the correction in the policies of government and comments on them.

 JV says that, there should be common law for all the citizens of country. Rashtra dharma should be the religion of all. JV says that, control priced food, shelter with minimal expenses, employment to all, education in reach of common man and affordable medical aid within reach of common man are the basic responsibilities of any government. 

JV advocates reforms in election system. Satguru says that if we can select party instead of person we can curb many ill effects due to collection of money by parties in the name of canvassing for election. Every party should select their candidates who are educated and are worthy of the post.

[prashant_ghadge1985]

Vitthal Vitthal

I am facing same problem of following some Natural laws getting difficult in living daily life.
Let me elaborate. Sadguru told us that every human being is god but they don't know about it. For being god we must assume first that everyone is god. When this thought goes into subconscious mind then we are about to be god and Sadguru will give us Sadhna to experience the GOD.
But problem is that in this competitive world we have to be best over all others and even this thought falls me down from my Sadhna.

Vitthal Vitthal
Wish you all for getting successful in their Sadhna

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskaar to Prashant and all,

It is good thing to see that youngster like you is participating in forum. Please continue to post. Prashant you say that, the thought that you have to excel than others makes you fall from sadhana shows that you are so keen in improving yourself. It is extremely heartening to see this!

You do not keep this thought that in your mind that, you have to excel over others. Think that everybody would work hard to achieve their goal in life. Everybody will work for their all round progress. Everybody would progress materially and spiritually.  Eventually each of us will get opportunity to progress which may not at one place but may be at different places when the time is favorable for the opportunity. As you said in earlier post, we all should have total faith in Satguru. We should follow his advice thinking that it is ved for us. Please read, "Sankalp siddhiche gupit" once again.

Do not worry about your future if you keep thinking positively about others and about yourself, and work hard, your future would be etremely bright.   

May Shri Satguru bless all of us and we try to do VP as much possible!

[mk]

Namonamah,
Prashantjee Namaste,

I understand from your post that you feel competition and JV philosophy do not go together.  I am no JV expert, but I feel that it is not so. JV would advocate a healthy approach to competition, very similar to the old Chinese proverb once quoted by Mark Twain: "As you climb the mountain of success, may you not meet a friend".

Dr. Nutanjee's post is good advice that you can follow.
Probably you could start a new thread "Facing Competition: The JV approach". I am sure seniors on this forum will help us all understand it better.

Thanks and regards

Milind Khadilkar

[mk]

Namonamah,
I think I have one example of the contrast in JV and law of the land (I may be wrong!).

JV's approach to truth could allow telling a lie when under oath, for example in a court. It is, however, against the law of the land.

Please comment.

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[MEENA PATKAR]

To,
Mk,
Namaskar,

QUOTE

JV's approach to truth could allow telling a lie when under oath

UNQUOTE
 
I am sorry once again .Who said that???, It is absolutely wrong.

JV never allows telling a lie. JV insist to act with "WISDOM" every moment.
and always busy in propounding  the knopwledge required , from which this "Wisdom" emerges.

Thanks & regards ,
Meena
May god bless all.

[mk]

Namonamah,
Meenajee Namaste,

You are probably right... JV seems to equate truth with "wisdom", "goodness" etc. Which is not the same as the legal meaning of truth. That is where it could deviate from the law of the land.

My post was based loosely on discussions in an earlier thread: http://www.jeevanvidya.org/forum/index.php/topic,158.msg1472/topicseen.html#msg1472

Please throw more light on it.

Thanks and regards

Milind Khadilkar

[MEENA PATKAR]

tO,
mk,
Namaskar,

In the  given link,Subhashji & Nutantai has very nicely explained ,about JV's approch.


JV always insists to stick to the Laws of Nature.Do not worry about other things.Other things will be automatically done by you ,intrinsically.Nobody knows how you behave at that moment (telling a  lie or the truth) , but I am sure , that will be the right thing done at the right time).

There are so many laws of Nature taught by Sh ri Sadguru.

Among them the following 3 are the most important laws.

1 Action & reaction are equal & opposite.

2. As you think, so you become.

3.Where there is a n effect there is a cause.


If we follow these laws of Nature ,they only show us the right way / right thing to do at right time. This is what is Wisdom,which emeges automatically , if we stick to the laws of Nature ,while living our life, every moment.


It is much of a matter of practice. I wish and I prey as early as possible you will get this experience and enjoy every minute of your life in a completely new way.

Thanks & regards .
Meena
May God bless all.

[Deepak_jvm]

Namaskar all,

As long as definition of truth is :"Truth is, after all, a perception. My perception", there is no guarantee that it is a truth. It can change with respect to various parameters. To draw a straight line you necessary condition is to have to have two points. Minimum three points are required to confirm a straight line. However there is no guarantee that you will get straight line as you plot more points. Perception of several blinds about elephant was not really a truth.

Many time good friends become enemies on the basis of perception..... sometimes they realize the truth later.

It was perception of people that sun orbits earth for years. Later it was discovered that earth orbits sun.

You can find more examples...

May God bless all,
Deepak

[subhash]

MK and all,

1. Laws of nature would prevail over the long run. Laws of land are based on NEETIMULYE or the morals of the society. e.g. Women were not allowed to vote for centuries together. But law of nature gives equal opportunity to all. Now this is the law of nature and law of land in almost all places in the world.

2. Where the law of land is accepted by many then even if there is a conflict we have to abide by it. e.g. If you go to Saudi and if you are a female ***** - you can not drive a car without an escort and you have to be under veil when in public. You do not get a freedom to eat during the day in public during Ramzan month. You will have to abide by that if it is the law of land. No alternative.

3. Where the law of land is inhuman we should do all that we can to change it. e.g. SATI, etc.

4. Competition - JV encourages the healthy competition. There is abundance in the world. JV also encourages you to be innovative. There are three types of Sukhas - Comforts of life, health and peace of mind, ATMASUKH. Whatever we do at the level of earning money should not contradict with the other two SUKHAS for self and others. Also survival of the fittest is also the law of nature (May the best team wins is also the same thing).

5. One last point about APATDHARMA - Incidental and situational breaking of laws of land - e.g. If you are carrying a serious patient and broke the traffic signal only in the interest of putting him under proper medical care asap you should be able to explain to police if he stops you, etc.

6. About telling a lie. Satguru has given practical guidance. Under oath you should tell the truth but if it is going to hurt the larger interests then you should tell a lie. e.g. If you are a spy and caught by other country's police. If you speak a lie under oath it is correct way of doing things. Because this is consistent with his loyalties to his country and confidentiality he has signed with his own countrymen.

JV's guidelines - Larger interests first (SARVAT SHRESHTHA HEET - SAMAAJHEET). e.g. JV recommends Krishna's breaking of oath in the larger interests is the right way and says that Bheeshma was wrong in Mahabharat because he protected individual interests of not breaking the oath and forgot to take care of the larger interests. Bheeshma's loyalties were more towards the JANATA than towards the throne, etc.

Hope this clarifies lot of points raised in previous posts.

God bless all,
Subhash

[mk]

Namonamah,

Law of the land treats giving bribes as a crime. I suppose JV would allow a person to give  a bribe if it speeds up a task meant for public good.

Am I right?
Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar