PUNYA and PAP

[Gaurav Chavan]

Namaskar,

In past few posts we are using words like consumption/accumulation of PAP and PUNYA.
PAP and PUNYA is very good topic, we should discuss this more in order to get more detail knowledge abut it.
These are the few points for are discussion   
1.   What is PAP and PUNYA?
2.   What is the process of consuming PUNYA or PAP?
3.   Can we control the consumption? How?

 Thanks
Gaurav Chavan

[Gaurav Chavan]

Hi all

1.   What is PAP and PUNYA?
Ans:-

क्रिया व प्रतिक्रिया या दोहोंच्या दरम्यान माणसाच्या कर्माचा जो सूक्ष्म ठसा अव्यक्त स्वरूपात अत्यंत सूक्ष्म रूपाने खोल जाणीवेत वास करून असतो व अभिव्यक्त होण्यासाठी अनुकुल काळ व अनुकुल संधीची वाट पहात ठाण मांडून बसतो तो सूक्ष्म ठसा म्हणजे पाप किंवा पुण्य होय.

In English we can define Paap and Punya as

Unmanifested inauspicious or auspicious reactions lodged in the subconscious mind, awaiting for appropriate and favourable circumstances for manifestation in life, can be rightly designated as Paap or Punya. 

2.   What is the process of consuming PUNYA or PAP?
Ans:- ??

3.   Can we control the consumption? How?
Ans:- ??

Thanks
Gaurav   

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskar Gaurav and all,

You have asked good questions and thank you for starting good discussion on this topic.


2. What is the process of consuming PUNYA or PAP?

Ans:- a) We consume punya -

      While we are living, we are helped by many people so we consume punya daily. When our desires are fulfilled we consume punya additionally. When we enjoy good things given by nature, by others we consume punya. When we get help during our critical times-recovery from big accidents, severe diseases and escape from accidents etc. our punya is consumed in very large quantity. 

   b) We consume pap-

When we suffer our pap is consumed. When meet with accidents, severe diseases pap is consumed. We may experience insulting, taunting, malice, hatred, punishment and may have to face poverty, ill health, physical disabilities etc. All these are the results of our own bad karamas and their impressions in the form of pap are lodged in our subconscious mind and pap is consumed when we meet with troublesome conditions in our life. 
 
3. Can we control the consumption? How?

Ans:- Control of consumption of pap- avoidance of experiencing the effects of pap is possible if we can remain in the state of positive thinking. This is well explained in the book written by Shri Satguru named, "Your destiny in your thoughts."

When we give the cheque of negative thinking to our subconscious. mind, we withdraw paap from our subconscious mind and experience troubles in our life. If we can cultivate the habit of remaining in positive thoughts and stay in positive state of mind,  then we can avoid the ill effects of all previous negative karma to get materialised in our life.

I think this is the great discovery done by JV.

Shri Satguru gives the example of Sage Valmiki. He says that though Valmiki had done so many bad karma, when he came in contact with Saint Narad he did relentless Nam jap; hence in his latter part of life he never experienced any sorrowful condition and lived happy life.

Though common man does not do so many bad karma like what Valmiki did, he does not achieve state of self realised saint because he does not have that strong determination to do relentless Nam jap or VP chanting.

 Control of consumption of punya-

If our desires are minimal our punya consumption would be minimal. Secondly we should avoid doing bad karma. Thirdly, if we develop habit of doing as many satkarmas possible, love our work and do all our duties then our total store of punya will always get replenished and increased. Secondly if we are doing positive thinking by chanting VP or doing Nam jap remembering lord in our heart with gratitude then on one side we will be doing punya karma and on the other side we will be avoiding pap to get manifested in our life. So Nam jap and VP chanting are extremely beneficial for us.

If we get Divy bodh from Shri Satguru and we start remaining in divy bhav then, the beneficial effects of chanting VP will be multiplied many times and spiritual progress will be faster. Hence everybody should strive to chant VP 1000 times and do both courses and try to get Divy Sadhana from Shri Satguru.
   

[Geeta Datar]

Thanks Gaurav for starting the topic and very good explanation by Nutan tai.

THANKS A LOT TO BOTH OF YOU.

GOD BLESS ALL WITH AKHAND VP.

Geeta Datar

[MEENA PATKAR]

Namaskar to all,

Very nice & very important topic started by Gaurav.

We should discuss the defination  still more.Paap & Punya have many aspects .

Yesterday ,in the prabodhan by Nivedita Dhawde,the same topic was taken.One new point came in the lecture, which I would like to share.
When one does any wrong act ,in advertantly i.e. not knowingly, whether it is Paap?
She gave an e.g. A person who is busy shaving in a morning , after he finishes shaving , he throws the blade ,out of the window ,by habit.He is not willing to hurt anyone , but someone gets hurt .Is he said to have done Paap?The ans. is Yes.

The reason is, he has got a buddhi , being a human being ,so he should have thought , before throwing the blade , that  it will hurt someone.Whenever an act has done , it will activate the laws of Nature,and he will have to face bad reaction , bad future for himself.
I would like to request all, please discuss the defination still further ,and then we will go to the next questions .(though nutantai has started with the next qts. and very nice replies are given by her).



Thanking you
Meena
May God bless all.


 

[Gaurav Chavan]

Hi All ,

Thanks for contributing your thoughts on this topic.
I would like to have some more discussion on this topic,
specially on ?consuming PUNYA?.
I have some different perception in my mind.

Due to busy schedule I was not able to find time to write it down now, I will post them coming few days? 

Gaurav Chavan

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskar to all.

Thank you Meena for reminding me about first question.

What is pap or punya?

By Definition pap or punya is the impression of our karma taped on subtle tape of consciousness and it is deposited in our subconscious mind. The action may be at the level of body and/or mind. This impression has the capacity to produce reaction. This reaction is experienced by the person concerned who has done the action after particular time interval when there is opportunity for the reaction to get materialised in the life of the person.

Various karmas require different time period to get materialised. This is compared with different varieties of fruit trees which take different time intervals to bear fruits. For example Papaya tree may take 1-2 years while walnut tree may take 200 years to bear fruits.   
 
We have discussed pap and punya to some extent in earlier posts and let us see it further.

Meena has given the example of shaving blade thrown out of window. This is the case of carelessness which can be because of lack of discipline or the improper habits.

We have to accept this that even if our act is unintentional regarding hurting somebody, if somebody is hurt then definitely we have done pap. It is also possible that we wanted to do good for the person but our act has given pain to that person. So karma can be of various kinds but if anybody is hurt or our action has resulted in giving pain to somebody then surely it is pap and for this we have to face the reaction as per law of the nature.
 
   Various examples can be quoted for the various types of karmas. Pandavas did Rajsuya yadnya to receive punya but pap got generated because it was done to show off their wealth to Kauravas. And for this karma they had to face reaction in their life. Draupadi laughed at Duryodhan when he fell in the pond and for this even she had to face insult in front of everybody. So we have to be very cautious while doing any karma. By single karma pap as well as punya can be generated. Husband may take his wife's side in an argument and may hurt his mother. Hence we always have to use our intellect and heart (take care of emotional part of our action) while doing any action. Also while doing any action we have to be true to our conscience and make judicious use of our intellect. This is the art of living and one has to learn from other's experience as well as our own experience. Satguru guides us from out side through pravachans and books and also from inside. If we are doing sadhana properly then we would know whether we are doing right action or not.

While facing reaction of pap a person may repent for his previous karma and apologize and beg to God that he has taken lesson from his mistake and HE should give him courage and strength to face the situation. Such person will not generate any further pap while facing adverse condition in his life.

Another person while facing difficulties may get violent and may start abusing and blaming everybody. He behaves rudely with others and may hurt others by his behaviour. Such person will further generate pap in his life.

Similarly while some persons while enjoying wealth, good health and good family life, talk rudely with others, they make fun of others who are not so fortunate. They insult and taunt others. They do not have gratitude for anybody and think that whatever good things they are having in life are because of solely their own effort which is only partially true. Such ungrateful people though they are having punya are creating pap for themselves.     

There are some other people who are having all good things in their life and they wish to share their time, wealth, skill, knowledge, wisdom with others so that they can be beneficial to others. Such people are dear to saints, Satguru and everybody. These people have punya and also keep generating punya by their action. But all the satkarmas should be done in the remembrance of God, other wise they will create pap because these satkarmas can create ahamkar. This person may become very proud of his virtues and may think  he is very great and such person's intellect would  be clouded and the person may do bad karmas further.

 I think this topic is very interesting and we can discuss it further. 
 

[MEENA PATKAR]

To,
Dr. Nutantai,
Vithal vithal

Thanks for such a nice explanation of the defination of Paap & punya.

One more thing where I get confused sometimes.It is said that "All the satkarmas are not always Punya & all the Dushkarmas are not always Paap ", for e. g. telling lies or misleading someone for saving someone's life, is a satkarma, so telling lies in this case will not be a paap.
I request you to please  elaborate more on this point.

thanking you,
Meena
May God bless all

[DEVENDRA]

Dear All,

Vitthal Vitthal..!

I am very thankfull to all who started the new & better topic for the disscusion.

I want ask one Que.

पाप, पुण्य  आणि   जीवाच्या   ठिकाणी  असनारा  अहंकार  यांचा  काही   संबंध  आहे   का ? आणि  जर  असेल  तर   तो  कशाप्रकारे  असतो  व  त्याचा  आपल्यावर  कसा  परिणाम   होतो.

Please explain in details

[MEENA PATKAR]

To,
Devendra,
Vithal Vithal


Very nice question raised by you.

I would try to explain a little.

Definately, Paap & Punya are related to the "Ahankar" each person has.

"Jeevacha thikani asalela  ahankar " is not a simple thing.It means , we have forgotten the almighty God ,we have forgotten that , because he manifested himself & he desired so to manifest , we came into existance.So we should always remember ,that whoever we are is  ,actually God living through us.So, we should take care of not hurting anyone anytime.

Hurting others , on the three levels of thought, speeach & deeds creats Paap.
Helping -----------------------------"-------------------------------------------------- Punya.


So creation of Paap & Punya are directly related to this "Ahankar".When ahankar is there ,
one tends to creat paap ,on the contrary when  we always remember ,"Mee to aahe ",when we remember God almighty is living life through us, we are able to control ourselves  , by taking utmost care not to hurt anyone .This automatically creats Punya.


Thanking you,
Meena
May God bless all.

[gargi]

Thank you Meena tai for such a nice and simple explanation of a complex topic.

May God Bless you always!
Gargi

[Gaurav Chavan]

Hi All,

Very nice question? 

Meena tai and all you will be shock but I disagree with the statement
?So creation of Paap & Punya are directly related to this "Ahankar".

Infact I would say there is no direct impact of PAP/PUNYA on AHANKAR.   

AHANKAR can cause to generate PAP (Unmanifested bad deeds), but PUNYA definitely can?t be cause of decreasing AHANKAR.
In fact in the process of divine samran AHANKAR dies out and as byproduct PUNYA gets accumulated.     
 
It is not always necessary all deeds should lead to accumulate PAP or PUNYA

These are my thoughts !!!
If you think it is wrong then please reply.

Thanks
Gaurav     

[MEENA PATKAR]

To,
Gaurav,
vithal vithal,

It's very nice that you have put your opinion.I am not shocked , but very happy , to have some different view.This is what is required for a healthy discussion.

I think , though you are saying you are not agreed with the statement quoted by me ,You are saying the same thing ,but in other words.

I am not able to know ,in the statement quoted by me,what have you disagreed with ??

As quoted by you,"In fact in the process of divine samran AHANKAR dies out and as by product PUNYA gets accumulated." The deed of doing devine smaran,means keeping in mind "mee to aahe" all the time , AHANKAR of " mee"  dies out.And this is where , there is no accumulation of either pap or punya.This happens when the false ahankar  dies & true ahankar imerges.(this gives a new topic  for discussion -true ego & false ego")

According to the query asked, we are talking about "jeevachya thikani aslela Ahankar".This Ahankar is always responsible for creation of Pap or Punya ,and ultimately creation of one's own destiny.
 
It is true that there is no direct impact of Pap /punya on Ahankar,
but Ahankar definately has a direct impact on Pap /Punya

All the deeds lead to accumulate pap or punya,untill there is an emergence of true Ahankar.True Ahankar will imerge only with the devine smaran.


That 's what I think.



Thanking you,
Meena
May GOd bless all.

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskar,

Feel nice to read discussion on the topic. Meena has answered well.

As long as there is deh bahv- feel that I am body named so and so, all the action will be attached to this bhav in mind. The doer of this action will take all the credit of this action and will suffer pain resulted from this action or will experience happiness and pleasure as a result of this action. The experience will be related to the type of action and this we have discussed earlier. 

When there is awareness that Chaitany shakti alone is doing all actions no pain or pleasure will be created in the mind of doer. This mind is divine mind and it does not do any paap or punya because there is sakshi bhav while doing all actions. If any desire is created in this mind then it becomes the desire of nature and hence all wishes are fulfilled.

Ahankar will melt when there is emergence of divy bahv. This divya bhav will emerge when there is Shri Satguru krupa. Satguru krupa will occur when we do sadhana, seva and remain in Satsang and for all this we require punya. This is how punya is related to ahankar.

When ahankar is gone mind is in state of divine consciousness and is  beyond the state of doing any punya and paap and this is discussed earlier.
 

 

[omkar]

Shriram
   
   Very nice explanation of this difficult subject. I think the devache vismaran [namache] he pap ahe ani smaran he punya ahe

Omkar
Effortless Namsmaran