What exactly is du:kh?

[mk]

Namonamah,
In the context of JV, what exactly is du:kh? I am not looking for the answer "it is what you get when you have no balance in your divine account", which merely indicates its cause, does not identify what it is.

Thanks in advance.

Regards

Milind Khadilkar

[MEENA PATKAR]

TO,
MK,
Namaskar,

Du:kh is that which is forgotten and never come across ,after implementing JV in life!




Thanks & regards,
Meena
May God bless all.

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskar to all,

Very good topic is started by Shri M. K. Nice answer given by Meena. Let us do chintan regarding dukkh and cause of it and ways to have sukh in life so that we do not experience dukkh.

The root cause of unhappiness or dukkh is ignorance and lack of wisdom, wrong beliefs, blind faiths, erroneous attitude etc. which arise out of ignorance.

The ignorance is infinite says Shri Satguru. The ignorance is about our swarup, power of mind, how to handle mind, laws and functional system of mind, power of thought, and laws of nature and how they affect our life, true concept of God, importance of having true Satguru's guidance and need to surrender Him, importance of doing sadhana prescribed by him, having satsang, doing one's duties with sincerity, doing auspicious actions etc.

When mind is united with favourable subject the person experiences happiness and when mind is united with unfavourable subject the person experiences unhappiness.

The subject can be any person, animal, non living thing, any event or any desire. The union of mind with any worldly subject does not give full satisfaction to mind. Hence it does not give feeling of content. (trupti) So mind becomes bore after some time and is in search of another new subject all the time. Therefore mind is always wandering from one subject to another and is always restless and feels that some thing is lacking in life.

Our swarup is anand. Sat+ Chit +anand. When we forgot our swarup (please read Shilpkar-Jeevan vidyecha onama), since then we are searching for anand-sukh.
Saints say that, "apan swatahach swathala harvun baslo."
The must deer smells the must and desperately tries to search the source of smell but is unable to find because it is in it's navel.
"Nabhi mrugache kasturi, Hinde gram vanantari",
Saint Eknath Maharaj says it is some thing like water is having thirst and is very eager to quench it.

So though we are anand, we are in search of it. So unless we search the lost thing in a place where we have placed our thing we will not get it. The orgin of mind is anand. Therefore mind which is turned towards world, should be turned inside, then only mind will experience happiness-bliss which it is craving for, which will give feeling of content.

At present mind is searching happiness in all subjects in the world where it rests for while and then again it gets bored and wants another subject. Shri Satguru teaches us how to turn mind inside while doing all our duties which require attention to outer world.

He gives the example of mother who has small child and is playing in the living room. Though mother is working in the kitchen, as soon as baby makes little noise, mother runs towards it. Similarly while doing our worldly duties we should be in constant anusandhan with Shri Satguru with the help of V. P says Shri Satguru. If we continue with this sadhana gradually we will experience sukh from inside called as atmsukh which is independent of circumstances in the outer world.

  Satguru teaches us the art of beautiful living.-"Jeevan jagnyachi kala"   If we learn this art from him and try to master it we will progress materially as well as spiritually. Prapanch chang (changla) hoto ani parmarth sang (siddh-sampurn) hoto.
 It brings about not only all round progress of any individual but also progress of family, society and nation but also of world.

 This art teaches us how to handle various factors in our life using wisdom so that we avoid dukkh and experience happiness.

There are many facets to this art of living. 
  Few points regarding this art are given here and if we want to know more about art of beautiful living, we must do Courses designed by Jeevanvidya, read the books written by Shri Satguru and listen to his pravachans.

The main thing is we must live life in tune with the laws of nature and for this we should know the laws of nature and how they affect our life.
Secondly we should always do positive and auspicious thinking, speaking and actions.
We should realise the importance of punya and always do satkarmas at the level of body and mind.
We should learn to balance our life. We should do all our duties with sincerity and love.
We should know that each man is living idol of God and hence we must behave with him accordingly.
We should live the life remembering the fact that, virtue is golden mean between the two extremities. Hence we should always be ready for adjustment, cooperation and have understanding attitude.
We must suppress our ego and handle other person's ego carefully.
We should have gratitude for all those who have helped us and fulfil our duties towards them.
We must always remember that, Kartavy dharm which includes "Rashtra dharma" is our dharma and behave accordingly and responsibly.
Love work and bless all is the best policy in our life.
We should rejoice for what we have and be grateful to the God for receiving them, rather than thinking about all unpleasant things which have occurred in our life. 
we should have "anand vata anand luta" Give happiness, receive happiness" policy in our life.

Whenever we do not use wisdom while living, (some of the points mentioned above), we are likely to become unhappy.
To know more about points on wisdom please read "Shanti Sukhacha Rajmarg" which is posted on the forum as well.

[mk]

Namonamah,
Dr. Nutanjee, Meenajee, Namaste.

QUOTE

Du:kh is that which is forgotten and never come across ,after implementing JV in life!

UNQUOTE

The above implies that if I want to know about Du:kh, JV members (assuming that they have implemented JV in life) are of no use.

Does it also mean that JV followers are insensitive?

Besides, if you do not know du:kh, how can you know sukh, or appreciate it?

Dr. Nutanjee,

You write
QUOTE
When mind is united with favourable subject the person experiences happiness and when mind is united with unfavourable subject the person experiences unhappiness.
UNQUOTE

Again this answer talks about the cause. At best, it converts the question to various other questions:
Mind: which mind: inner, outer or the ones higher?
Is unhapponess the same as du:kh?
Is dukh: only an "experience", nothing more? If so, sukh also should be an experience, nothing more.
Is du:kh subjective? I suppose it is...
How do you define "unfavourable subject"? If you define it as one in whose union du:kh occurs, we are getting into cyclic definitions, which get us nowhere.

If there is a pain in your arm, the arm becomes an undesirable object. Right? (I mean in the sense that if we don't think about the paining arm, the pain is no longer there).

Of course, assuming pain is a du:kh. Is it?

I am unhappy if Indian players lose a match. Is unhappiness du:kh? Should I or should not I be unhappy on such occasions? It will be illogical if I should feel happy if India wins and avoid feeling unhappy if India loses.

"Indians' ability" is a subject. Is it a favourable subject or an unfavourable subject?

Is du:kh just a kind of hoax, a baagulbuva? Your post gives a good prescription for avoiding du:kh, but without a diagnosis. I am looking for a description of du:kh.

Sorry for such random (childish!) questions.


Thanks for your replies.

Regards
Milind Khadilkar

[MEENA PATKAR]

To,
MK,
Namaskar,

Jv followers are sensitive enough & knowledge seekers.
Therefore,I said "after implementing JV in life".
Before that thre was dukkh .But They are successful in overcoming it , after implementing JV in their life.

A single situation can be Dukkh giving to some , and sukh giving to other.(for e.g. Indian players lose the match it is a dukkh for Indians ,but for the opposite team it is sukkh).


Jv followers can be a good source of guidance , if one studies their experiences , how they have overcome dukkh in their lives ,with the help of implementation of JV.



Meena,
May god bless all.

[dr.nutanpol]

   Namaskar M. K. and all,

JV members are not all insensitive. In fact they are more sensitive about all issues.
Unhappiness can be called as milder form of dukkh or opposite of happiness-sukh which is dukkh itself. Very difficult to translate in exact words.
It is really not possible to discuss dukkh in singular post. Hence I asked to read books and listen to pravachans for quite some time to know JV philosophy. When I joined JV I ran from Girgaum to Goregaon to listen  Shri Satguru's pravachans.
Satguru mukhatun shravan he sadhakasathi sarvottam ahe. Because he knows what is going in your mind and which are the points which need explanation. I think Shri Subhash mentioned this before.
Your queries are always welcome and we will try our  best to discuss it here but please read books and see whether you can do two and half day course of Swanand yog at Kalyani village near Vajreshwari. The first two lectures on ?Sukh mhanje kay??  are given during Swanand yog Part One and our concepts regarding Sukh and dukkh become quite clear after listening to these lectures. At the end of session there is question-answer session and any body can ask his/her doubts. During this 3 hour discussion many concepts become quite clear. If we understand how to get sukh then we can avoid dukkh.   

It is true that sukh and dukkh are subjective terms. Listening to jazz or hard rock music can be pleasure- giving happiness to some people while for others it can be mere punishment.  Same thing can be said about various things like food, clothes etc. Every individual has different interests and set of choices and it is the diversity created by nature.
  Every body in this world experiences both, sukh as well as dukkh. Therefore Saint Ramdas says, Jagi sarv sukhi asa kon ahe vichare mana tuchi shodhuni pahe.
Regarding JVM members what happens is that they learn how to face dukkh in any situation by the grace of Shri Satguru because he imparts knowledge, gives sadhana and gives mental support to face any problem. So no longer dukkh affects them.

The mind (conscious +subconscious) is consciousness pervading the body which makes contact with the world though karmendriyas and dnyanendryas.
The mind is in a state of illusion due to maya (reason unknown)+kalpana-imagination done by mind.
The conscious mind is connected with all body organs on one side and subconscious mind on the other side. When one has divine mind the outer part of divine mind will be connected with body organs on one side and Chaitany ?ocean of cosmic life force on the other side. Hence unless one goes in a state of Samadhi where divine consciousness which includes consciousness pervading the whole body is united with the cosmic life force, the sadhak will experience pain of body.

 But with sadhana sadhak learns to bear physical pain. His tolerance to bear pain increases.
(Please read Amrut Manthan Chapter, "Shankar mhanato Tathastu"to know more about the functioning of conscious and subconscious mind.)

  There are 3 types of sukhs. 1) Sharirik sukh 2) Manasik sukh 3) Aatmik sukh.
The sharirik sukh can also be called as sukh-suvidha- This is because of convenience to the body provided by spending money. Bunglow. Car, furniture, A. C. etc. To get this we have to earn money.
JV says that one should earn money by hard work and doing constructive and socially useful work and stay comfortably and also save for future.
If we are not able to earn money enough to provide our basic needs like food, shelter, clothes, education and medical aids then definitely we will face troublesome condition and pain arising out of it.
2) Manasik sukh- To have this sukh we should have punya and also wisdom.
Good wife who takes good care of family, understanding and caring husband, obedient children, good neighbours and colleagues, dependable friends all such relations would be received only if we have punya in our divine account.   
 
The reasons for the pain due to mental stress needs to be analysed. As you know the circumstances are unfavourable to us when our punya in divine account is depleted.
Besides factors mentioned in earlier post I remember following points which we must implement to avoid dukkh.
1)   Expectations and insistence that every body should accept and  respect our view causes unhappiness or dukkh.  Shri Satguru says that agrah ha sarvat motha dusht grah ahe.
2)   We must remember Panch sheel of Manavi Sanskruti which is, samata, sabhyata, samanjasya, sahishnuta and samadhan and behave accordingly.
3)   Nothing is permanent in this world except change. Jag he Nity nutan ahe.
4)   Diversity is glory of God.
5)   Everybody is useful in this world.
6)   It does not require much intellect to blame, defame, taunt and criticize anybody. Stay away from such behaviour.   
7)   As said in earlier post ignorance about swarup is the root cause of all pain, sorrow and troublesome conditions in our life.
  Mi ani mazepan yat sagale dukkh samavale ahe ase  sant mhantaat.
Mi- is I- Ego- Bhram- illusion that I exist as body.
Mazepan- about things related to body. This has the base of ignorance. Every thing related to my body is mine.  You are not body but cosmic energy- chaitany and everybody and every thing is chaitanya then who are you? what is yours?  (Please read Amrut manthan- Paramartha navhe jeevanacha arth-pg161-2, Buddhiche Vaibhav-168-187, Satguru mahima agadh-188-212 and all chapters after that. 

See all this paramarth is to be done by mind and practically you have to live by balancing between prapanch and paramarth. And  this needs to be done  by applying wisdom and this is an art which Satguru tells you when you are ripe for the stage. Telling paramarth and discussing it here is also difficult because each individual has different sets of problems and Shri Satguru alone is able to help. Therefore Shri Satguru says Prapanch karava janat ani paramarth karava manat.
Hence it is difficult to guide anybody theoretically and therefore  paramarth which is called as secrete vidya  is to be learned by directly surrendering Shri Satguru.   

[mk]

Thanks, Dr. Nutanjee,

Isn't "aspiration/hope/expectation of sukh" a major cause of du:kh?

Regards
Milind Khadilkar

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskar MK and all,

Yes expectation of sukh gives us pain. In fact expectation of any kind gives rise to pain. Apeksha ani agrah yat sare dukkh samavale ahe. If we expect sukh (which is again subjective thing) from others then it can give rise to pain.
 Therefore Shri Satguru says that, (de ani have) yatach aple jeevan chalae ahe. 

If we wish to obtain sukh from a source which is independant of outside conditions then this will start inward journey, hence spiritual progress. Actually this what is meant by sadhana. This sukh is to be obtained by rightful behaviour when dealing with the world because sukh dya sukh ghya nisargacha niyam ha. Fakt ekate apan sukhi hou shakat nahi. Sukh det rahilyane milat jate. Sukh dyayala suravat keli tar apan kadhi sukhi zalo he kalat nahi.

Aatmik sukh is to be obtained by doing sadhana prescribed by Shri Satguru as well as Satguru seva!

May Satguru bless all of us and may everbody chant VP and do Shri Satguru-seva!


 

[prashant_ghadge1985]

Vitthal Vitthal to all Namdharakh

Even many people says that they are in SUKH but they actually unaware of the real happiness and this is true for our Namdharakh also, including me.
Our Sadguru is experiencing real happiness and that is possible only when we are taking efforts for getting god or say knowing god or in Sadguru's word being god. If our efforts are for god then only we can be happy. We are taking efforts for PRAPANCHA that's why we can not experience real happiness.
Du:kh in Parmartha is lack of this real happiness.

Vitthal Vitthal
Wish everybody will get this REAL HAPPINESS.
 

[mk]

Namonamah,
Sorry for opening an old topic.

Just wanted to clarify for myself:

In JV terms, since sukh and anand are distinct, which is correct? (I agree with Dr. Nutanjee that exact translations of these words  into English would be difficult keeping their JV meanings intact.)

A. Du:kh is the absence of sukh
B. Du:kh is the opposite of sukh
C. Du:kh is the absence of anand
D. Du:kh is the opposite of anand



Thanks and Best Wishes

Milind Khadilkar

[sushantmusale]

Hello MK,
As i understood, actually there is nothing like Du:kh
Because : Emergance (uday), existance (astitva) and Disolution (Laya) everything happens in anand.

The issue is in the process of manifestation through body (upadhi / medium dharan karanyachi prakriya)
CS la padnara visar - at the same time emergance of so called DU:KH

So ABCD options given i think are not truely correct.

Option has to be forgetness of SU:KH

Thanks!