Wrong thoughts

[mk]

Namonamah,
Vaibhavjee Namaste,

Arg 2: Why don't you ask Pai Mahaaraaj about this? I am sure he will ask you to give more credence to your experience than his. But how to interpret this experience? There he is the more definitive authority, even when it concerns your experience.

Arg 3.: Is there a difference between the highly wise and the fool? We commoners are unable to grasp the wisdom in much the same way that we are unable to comprehend the foolishness. A fool probably has the same inner urge as a sage; a fool might be nothing more than a philosopher whose time has not yet come. A sage might be considered a fool who wastes his time on us incorrigibles. It is in this limited sense that I have made the comparison: That's why Kabir calls himself Baura (fool).
I think JV should give you the strength to take the more difficult path.

Thanks and Best wishes
Milind Khadilkar.

[omkar]

Hello Nice discussion

I agree with MK

Omkar
"May God bless all with "Akhand Sadguru Krupa & Effortless  Namsmran""

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskar MK jee and all,

 We perceive any thought when it enters our mind. If we keep thinking about it many times about it then it gets lodged deeper and deeper and then it gets materialized in our life. If we ignore it then it becomes ineffective.

When our mind is filled with all positive thoughts, mind does not get attracted to wrong thoughts (wrong-not in harmony with the laws of nature) and hence such thoughts do not lodge in the subconscious mind to affect person's behavior. This is done according to the law of nature which is like attracts like. However when the mind is not so pure, the mind is filled with many thoughts which are not in harmony with the laws of nature. In such situation if a person who is not doing any sadhana and tries to handle wrong thoughts then it becomes practically impossible job unless the person has done sadhana (trained his mind in his previous birth.) So what is advisable is the person should do naam jap or vishvaprarthana and try to purify mind than doing wrestling with wrong thoughts.

2 If you are engaged constantly in naam jap or VP, do satsang as much possible and if you listen to Shri Satguru?s advice and bring it practically in your life then your mind is in constant company of good thoughts, so the question of handling wrong thoughts will not arise. Some naamdharaks have faced very difficult situations in their lives and Shri Satguru asked them to do minute to minute VP and by the grace of Shri Satguru they are leading normal life without much stress. Kar ani paha mhanje tumachyavar krupa hote.

If we reach the stage of divine consciousness by sadhana then we conquer the thoughts. If we start conquering individual thought then God knows, how many births will be required to achieve the state of conquering of thoughts. (Handling mind, handling thoughts is not always easy job, it is something which even Vishvamitra sage could not do even after many years of sadhana!) Only Shri Satguru?s help can do this.

May everybody chant VP!

[Vaibhav Nimbalkar]

Dear all,
Really a nice discussion going on!

@ Mk,

Arg.2: Every individual being different (due to diff. sanskaras & perceptions), the case becomes subjective!
Surely, I'd like to ask this to Shri Satguru! Thanx for this suggestion btw!

Arg.3: "वेड लागल्याशिवाय इतिहास घडत नाही, कारण वेडी माणसेच इतिहास घडवितात!" -शिवशाहीर बा. पुरंदरे
If you really meant it this way, then I don't have any problem!

JVM's book named 'Satguru Samaj-GairSamaj' proclaims-
"जयासी मोक्ष व्हावा l तेणे सद्गुरु सेवावा l
सद्गुरुविण मोक्ष पावावा l हे कल्पांती न घडे ll" -समर्थ रामदास.

Besides, I'm myself an incorrigible pragmatist! We all do want to do careers, prapanch, et al.; achieve swaarth, paraarth, paramaarth within this 'janma' itself! So I'd better choose the easiest path to achieve all these, rather than randomly striving (or just craving?!! ) only for this petitio principii!
After all, as JV preaches- After moksha, the real life begins! So, why should I 'waste' so much of time (or janmas together?!! ) just to start living a worthy human life?
Again, choice is ours! Hence, "You are the architect of your destiny!"



@ Dr.Nutan-taai,
Really a commendable post! You've explained (& hence revised for us all!) the very basics of the discussion!
Kudos...

[mk]

Namonamah,
Thanks, Vaibhavjee,

You say
QUOTE
Surely, I'd like to ask this to Shri Satguru! Thanx for this suggestion btw!
UNQUOTE

Naamdhaaraks seem to have as easy access to Pai Mahaaraaj as I have to god.

Great.

I like your summing up of your commendable life philosophy. May your goals achieve you.

And Dr. Nutanjee,
Thanks for the neat reply. As Vaibhavjee says, very apt summing up.

Regards
Milind Khadilkar

Best wishes
Milind Khadilkar

[omkar]

Hello all thanks all
Is it not right that no thought has entered in mind
our mind has habit of creating them No matter what we do

Thanks all Thanks JV Thank You

                                Omkar
"May God bless all with "Akhand Sadguru Krupa & Effortless  Namsmran""

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskar Vaibhav, MK, Omkar and all,

Vaibhav thank you very much for your encouraging words. Sorry for responding late.  You appreciate everybody and hence as per law of nature, you deserve appreciation from all.  I am sure very soon we all will get very big occasion and chance to do so because of Shri Satguru's grace and your efforts. All the best wishes for your exam!

Thank you MK for your kind remarks.

Omkar Shri Satguru says that, thought is the manifestation of chaitany. (Chaitanyachi sfurti)

Chaitany is constantly expressing itself as thoughts. Though the centers of thoughts are present all over the world as various  objects (पदार्थ  ) Shri Satguru says when the mind likes some object it becomes subject(विषय) for the mind.  For example if man is staying away from his spouse and children he will think about them.
Object includes all persons, natural and man made creations and substances and events etc..

Mind is unsteady-(chanchal) by nature. Mind is in search of steadiness. Mind becomes steady on various subjects like movies, drama etc. for some time. Then it feels bored and then it searches another subject.  This way mind hops from one subject to another.  During the period when mind is steady for some time we experience pleasure because the feeling of joy is flowing through all organs and it originates from our own swaroop.

In this stage of ignorance when mind is turned towards the world, it is not able to experience the state of bliss which mind wants and is in search of. 

All sadhanas of various religions are meant to change the direction of flow of mind. When we do sadhana prescribed by Shri Satguru, mind changes its direction gradually and turns towards the swaroop. Then it loses its unsteadiness and gradually becomes still on swaroop.  All the saints say that this experience of bliss is a one of a kind experience and cannot be described in words.

 विचार हे चैतन्याचे स्फुरण आहे. मनाचे स्फुरण आहे.

 या जगातील पदार्थ म्हणजे केवळ वस्तू नव्हे तर व्यक्ती, घटना इत्यादि जेव्हा मनाला विचाररूपाने स्फुरण्यासाठी अनुकुल वाटतात तेंव्हा त्यांना विषय असे म्हणतात.
विषयांची केंद्रे या जगात असतात पण त्यांचे स्पंद मनात उमटतात. उदा. बायको माहेरी गेलेली असेल तर तिच्या विषयीचे विचार प्रेम, चिंता, काळजी या रूपात मनात निर्माण होतात. (मंगल कलश-१५९)
मन स्वभावत: चंचल आहे. ते एका विषयावरून दुसऱ्या विषयावर सतत धाव घेत असते. याचे कारण म्हणजे मनाची सुखासाठी चाललेली धडपड होय. मनाला जेव्हा एखादा विषय अनुकुल वाटतो तेव्हा ते त्यावर तात्पुरते स्थिर होते. मनाला स्थैर्य हवे आहे. कारण जेव्हा ते एखाद्या विषयावर स्थिर होते तेव्हा इंद्रियातून, जाणीवेतून स्वरूपातला आनंद वहातो. पण आपल्याला हे ज्ञात नसते म्हणून आपल्याला वाटते की, विषयापासून आनंद मिळत आहे आणि आपण विषयात काही काळ रमतो.

पण काही काळानंतर त्या विषयाचा त्याला कंटाळा वाटतो किंवा त्याला त्याची सवय होऊन त्यात त्याला नावीन्य वाटत नाही. उदा. नवीन घर घेतले, नवीन गाडी घेतली तर काही काळ बरे वाटेल मग त्याचे नावीन्य वाटणार नाही. मग दुसरे काही तरी खरेदी करावेसे वाटेल. सिनेमा पाहिला. तोच सिनेमा एकदा पहावासा वाटेल, फार तर दुसऱ्या वेळा, खुप जास्त वेळा पहायची वेळ आली तर शिक्षा वाटू शकेल.

श्री सदगुरू जी साधना शिकवितात त्याने मन मुळाकडे वळते, स्वरूपाकडे वळते आणि हळूहळू त्यावर स्थिर होते. या विषयी संत ज्ञानेश्वर महाराज म्हणतात,
 "हे अनुभवाचिया जोगे, नोहे बोला ऐसे"

( मंगल कलश-सारांश )

श्री सदगुरू वामनराव पै जी साधना शिकवितात त्याने विचारांचे प्रमाणे हळूहळू कमी होत जाते. साधनेच्या सुरूवातीच्या काळात होणारा विचारांचा त्रास नंतर जाणवत नाही.


May God bless all!

 

[Gargi Pandit]

Dear All,

As Milindji has already started discussing the wrong thoughts and Escapism, I may as well add my query here.
My fianc? keeps saying that he never argues, as he does not want any klesha.
Though I do agree that pointless arguments will bring klesha but when it is about supporting something right and we still avoid it , wont it be the simple escapism then?,
Jo manus chukato ahe tyachya chukka dakhwalya ter tyala tras/dukkha jarur hoil pan bhavishyat to te eikun sudharala ter tyacha tyala fayada nahi ka honar?
Ani jewha apan chukichya goshitncha virodh karat nahi tewha changalya manasana jo tras hoto to Klesha nahi ka?
Again some contradiction : at one side you say prevention is better than cure and on the other side you make problems so worse that those become impossible to repair.
What is to be really done??
Even I used to think like Milindji that all this abhays should make you so strong that it should give you courage to take a stand on ?difficult? situations.
Please guide.

Prayers,
Gargi

[Geeta Datar]

Hello Gargi

Vitthal Vitthal

I think you can correct those who trust you or who come to you for advice or you have authority to correct them ( eg work place or school or parents ) In all these three cases instead of arguments you can have healthy exchange of views.

Arguments happen when people do not respect each other and insist on their own viewpoint as right.  Sadguru says Aagraha ha dushta graha aahe.

God bless

Geeta Datar

[mk]

Namonamah,

Geetajee, you are right.

The problem is that it is rare that both sides to an argument accept that it is an argument they are in. Usually, one feels it is an argument and the other feels it is a healthy discussion.

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[Gargi Pandit]

Dear Milind ji,

Well said about this argument and healthy discussion confusion.

And I am yet to find a person who thinks he is wrong and the person opposite is right.
( and when that admission does happen ?wel? nighun geleli asate!! And things go beyond correction)

Above all how can we simply say ?Agrah? is ?dushta grah? ??

Off course ?duragraha? can be a dushta graha..
ani Duragrah mhanaje parinamancha wichar na karata kelela agrah.
 
Changlya goshitncha agrah ter dharalach pahije na ??
Gandhiji Britishana ?bharat chodo? cha agrahach karat hote na?
Bhale British kahi tyancha agrah eikun gele nahit ,
Pan nidan Bharatalya janatela aplya bajune bolanara neta millaa ani ti swatantrya sangramamadhe ter utarali?
Ani pudhacha Itihas Sarvashrut ahe..

Prayers,
Gargi

[Deepak_jvm]

Dear Milindjee,
Namaste!

Namonamah,

Geetajee, you are right.

The problem is that it is rare that both sides to an argument accept that it is an argument they are in. Usually, one feels it is an argument and the other feels it is a healthy discussion.

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

As pointed out rightly by Geetajee, when any party tries to prove onself right by proving other party wrong, arguments start. If you start challenging somebody or something without any respect, a healthy discussion turns into ugly arguments. Looking at ones tone, the other side can make out whether the person is interested in healthy discussion or arguments to prove his greatness by showing the other party stupid.

May God bless all,
Deepak Mahadeshwar