Still-Births and Infant Mortality

[mk]

Namonamah,
In terms of JV's theory of rebirth, paap and punya accumulation/consumption across lives, how can we explain still-born children and children who die before they can be held responsible for their actions/thoughts?

Thanks and Best Wishes,
Milind Khadilkar

[MEENA PATKAR]

vithalvithal

JV supports the concept of Re-birth i.e. Punarjanma.
It can not be proved, but one of the laws of Nature ,explianed by JV is "Cause & Effect Relationship".Jv believes that it is one of the laws of nature that "where there is an effect there is surely a cause behind it."(Just like when there is smoke , somewhere there is a fire)
 whatever effect we see when a child is born for e.g.a child may get birth in a poor family or a rich family , he/she  may born with a good health or he may born handicapped.This depends on his Karmas in the previous birth.

Please refer the book "Papa Punya"by Sadguru Shri Wamanrao Pai.

Regads
Meena
May God bless all

[mk]

Namonamah,
Meenajee Namaste.

Thanks for your response to my query. I feel my question still remains unanswered. What could be the reason behind reinvoking a life and shunting it out before birth? What possible paap or punya transaction could be happening here? Only one thing comes to mind: it is a punishment to the parents. But what about the life so shunted out?

Similar, largely, is the case where a child dies before reaching an age where he or she could be considered responsible for his/her actions. Is it also due to the need to punish the parents?

Hope I have made my question clearer

Thanks and regards

Milind Khadilkar

[Deepak_jvm]

Dear MK,

How are you?

God does neither reward nor punish. One gets reaction magnified and multiplied (instead of saying rewarded or punished) for his/her actions per laws of nature.

Do you know the story of pandavas? During their last journey including Draupadi all brothers of Yudhisthir died. Later Yudhisthir reached Swarga. He found Kauravas in Swarga. His brothers were seen by Yudhisthir in Narak (Please correct me if the story needss correction. I read Mahabharat 30 years ago. Please try to understand the conclusion instead of going in to details of story.). That was really painful to Yushisthir. You must have read Mahabharat, and must be aware of the answer given by Yamaraj to Yudhisthir.

As suggested by Meenatai, it would be useful to you if you read Satguru's books.

May God bless all,
Deepak

[mk]

Namonamah,

Deepakjee namaste. (Now I will have to address you as Deepak_jvm jee, as 'DEEPAK" is a new member!)

More than anything else, I am happy to see your post on the forum.

As far as this question goes, the story of Yudhishthir does have broad relevence. But is the reasoning in line with JV?

Also, this particular question came to my mind while re-reading "Tooch...." And I am not attributing anything to God either!



Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[MEENA PATKAR]

To,
mk
Namaskar,

Yes ,it can be said that itis for the punishment of parents.
But who is the  punishment giver ?
As Deepak has said,God does neither reward nor punish.
JV says God never interfere in your life. According to the Jv phylosophy,"you are the architect of your own destiny".That means it says, every reaction has an action in past. This Past may be a previous birth , which nobody remebers .
So instead of saying the punishment got from an unknown , JV says it is their own actions in their past which  are responsible for getting such kind of destiny.Same is the case with an infant.He might have done something wrong in his past birth.

To understand this , one should believe in re-birth.Do you believe???
if not,then assume for sometime that there is re-birth (atma is immortal ,also said by Bhagwatgita)

Still your qt remains unanswered , pl continue till you get satisfied.Because this is  only a secret of human life ,rather a   Gurukilli  i.e. Masterkey to happy life taught by Shri Sadguru.This is what an essence of JV knowledge.this is what JV is trying to explain to live life happily.


regards,
Meena
May God bless all

[subhash]

MK,

Life is continuous. JV says that childhood and advanced age stages of life are but BHOGYONIs. You can not hope to do anything but just consume your accumulated PAPAs and PUNYAs. Of course it goes without saying that you do collect more PAPA or PUNYA impressions according to how you act while consuming which is part of KRIYAMANA.

A child - while it is infant is still able to feel. Taking a birth to specific parents is a fruit of past life KARMAs or stack. JV maintains that you can change your destiny by your KRIYAMANA. Everybody has infinite PUNYA impressions from past births and infinite PAPA impressions. You can change the destiny of a child who is about to be born by taking good care of mother and child before and after delivery, doing good SANSKARAS on the child's mind, etc. By doing this, parents are reshuffling the child's stack of PAAP-PUNYA and that is where the concept of DWIJA - second birth - SANSKARAT DWIJA UCHYATE.

What is death according to JV? - For some reason the connection between CHAITANYASHAKTI's ANSHA (AATMA) and UPADHI breaks. Analogy can be of a fan which is cut off from electric power when we switch off the power button - it stops. But this analogy is incomplete because electricity is not manifesting as fan. Here UPADHI is a manifestation of CS. So when the connection between AATMA and BODY breaks we declare the person as dead. Satguru says SHWAAS or PRANA is a king. When it leaves the body everybody else leaves. AATMA leaves the current body but generates a new body. Birth is to the body and death is to the body and not to the AATMA which collects PAAPA-PUNYA.

JV also talks about the first birth when there was no PRARABDHA or SANCHIT. SANCHIT and PRARABDHA get created out of KRIYAMANA of first birth and laws of UPADHI, laws of nature govern our every birth.

Hope the story is now complete.

God bless you, God bless all,
Subhash

[mk]

Namonamah,
Thanks, Subhashjee.

You mention
QUOTE
What is death according to JV? - For some reason the connection between CHAITANYASHAKTI's ANSHA (AATMA) and UPADHI breaks.
UNQUOTE

Is this "some reason" mysterious? Is it not a manifestation of the paap-punnya balance of the person?

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[subhash]

MK,

some reason is not mysterious. When you see a lighted bulb then it can have multiple reasons because of which it stops emiting light. It breaks, the wire gets off from one end, the power is switched off, etc. Similarly AATMA's connection with body can break because of multiple reasons - disease, murder, old age, heart attack, lack of breath, etc.

DIVYA JANEEV and DIVYA NENIV from AATMA makes or creates the new body. Birth is to body and death is to the body. Life force is continuous, indestructible as has been told in Vedanta and Geeta. Satguru further clarifies two more concepts - Life force manifests as body - SHARIR AATMYACHA PINJARA NAHI, secondly - even realized soul takes a new birth.

God bless you, God bless all,
Subhash