Is sukh the same as moksh, according to JV?

[mk]

Namonamah,
A recent episode of CHC on Akashvani mentioned moksh.

Moksh as a term is relatively rare in JV literature, compared to opther philosophies. In reply to an earlier query on this Forum, Dr. Nutanjee had equated Moksha with deliverance from ignorance. In a more recent thread about sukh, sukh was also similarly described.
It is in this context that I submit this question.

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[MEENA PATKAR]

vithalvithal,

Yes , that's true.
Sukh can be said as the same as MOKSH,provided the correct meaning of MOKSHA is understood.
 Most of the people have a misunderstanding that Moksh means "Escape from The circle of  birth & death.But it's not true.

shri Sadguru has explained this in "Jeevanvidyecha Mangal Kalash"very nicely.He says , simple meaning of Moksh is to get the puzzel of life solved.

When we get the puzzel of life solved and realise  the reason behind the human birth i.e
human birth is for becoming and remain happy always by spreading  the happiness to others first.(Anand  vatata vatata Anand Lutanyasathi manasacha janma aahe).When we realise this by ourselves , the Moksha can be said to be achieved.There only appears Sukh automatically.

Meena
May God bless all.


 

[subhash]

MK and Meenaji,

Moksha or Liberation is a state which is achieved when we attain Realization of Self. It is not a freedom from the cycle of birth and death because nobody is free in that sense - Life is continuous. Sukh is the effect of attaining Liberation.

MK's observation is very apt. JV does not emphasize MOKSHA as the mission of life. Satguru says MOKSHA is very individualistic mission. Hence the Divine Universal Prayer which makes individual think about every being!

God bless all,
Subhash

[mk]

Namonamah,
Meenajee, Subhashjee, thanks.

But I am confused now.

Subhashjee, if sukh is the effect of attaining liberation(Moksha), and if moksha is not the mission of life, then sukh also cannot be!

My understanding was (and parts of your post confirm it) that the path to moksha diverges from the path to sukh beyond a point. Or, do they diverge to meet again?

Thanks and regards,
Milind khadilkar

[MEENA PATKAR]

TO,
mk,
Namaskar

I would like to know, what is "MOKSHa"? according to you?




Meena
May GOd bless all

[mk]

Namonamah,
Meenajee Namaste.

As far as this particular thread is concerned, I am referring to the JV definition of Moksh, viz. realization of self, or liberation from the bonds of ignorance.

Personally, since I am not a believer (or disbeliever) in Punarjanma, the meaning I attach to moksh is very limited, something similar to what JV calls "nivaant hone". But my perceptions change rapidly. My perceptions are anitya and nitya-nootan.

Thanks and regards,
Milind Khadilkar

[subhash]

MK,

two points:

(1) When you reach MOKSHA you get SUKH - You are continuously enjoying the bliss within. You do not get MOKSHA after MOKSHA but you continue to get unending SUKH. MOKSHA is but a milestone in the infinite journey of life. SUKH continues to accompany us thereafter. But this is not the end, it is a beginning !

(2) We are ANANDAYATRI and ANANTAYATRI. After realizing the self which makes us capable of enjoying the bliss within, the real life starts! VEDA (fool) MANUS SHAHANA ZALYAVARACH TYACHE KHARE JEEVAN SURU HOTE TASECH AHE HEY. SUKH is not the mission of life - it is half the truth. Acquiring infinite knowledge and helping others to make SUKHI, SAMRUDDHA and YASHASVI is the real mission of life. SWATAHA SUKHI HOUN ITARANNA SUKHI KARNYACHA PRAYATNA KARANE is the aim of life. Realized souls take next births just to do this. Geeta does proclaim that 'TASYA KARTAVYA NA VIDYATE' but Satguru insists to help others - do LOKASANGRAHA - again the word from Geeta. Satguru does not call a person who is a realized soul but not helping others as real MUKTA.

JV is really unique.

God bless you, God bless all,
Subhash

[mk]

Namonamah,
Subhashjee, but according to JV, you cannot anyway attain sukh without making others sukhi. How does it co-exist with your post? Also, from your post, it appears that moksha is on the path to sukh. What can be on the way from moksha to sukh?
Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[subhash]

MK,

Request you to read my earlier post properly. My post does not say Moksha is on the path to SUKH but says that after the Moksha milestone SUKH is given. MOKSHA is a milestone on the path of life.

Secondly, you continue giving SUKH to others before Moksha because it is one of the short cuts to Moksha. You achieve happiness 'within' faster if you constantly try to make others happy.

A real MUKTA gives SUKH not because he wants anything (TASYA KARTAVYA NA VIDYATE) but because that person is really happy. Satguru is the real GIVER in this category.

God bless you and God bless all,
Subhash

[mk]

Namonamah,
Thanks, Subhashjee,

I cannot yet differentiate between

1. ...after the moksha milestone sukh is given (from your last post)
2. ...moksha is on the path of sukh (my interpretation of your earlier post)

My failing, most likely.

But am I correct in assuming (from 1 above)  that without moksha sukh is impossible?

Regards
Milind Khadilkar

[subhash]

MK,

Sukh is 'given' means Sukh is there forever accompanying you. May be my english. After MOKSHA you are in state of happiness ALL THE TIME. My earlier post saying - "When you reach MOKSHA you get SUKH - You are continuously enjoying the bliss within."

Sukh can be achieved without MOKSHA but it is not SHASHWAT or FOREVER. It comes and goes.

More later.

God bless you, God bless all,
Subhash

[MEENA PATKAR]

To,
MK,
Namaskar

Subhashji has explained the whole concept of Moksha very nicely .There is nothing to
get confused.

Moksha means self realisation .It means liberation.Liberation from the ignorance.It Simply  means acquiring knowledge about life and about how to become happy in life.

Sukh means happiness.We can achieve Sukh only when we get knowledge , when we realise what is the real  secret of a happy life.

So, after obtaining Moksha ,i. e after getting the true knowledge ,one can achieve Yash, Sukh & Samruddhi i e Success, happiness & Prosperity.These 3 are and should be the aim of life according to JV.

In JV's view Moksha means realising the truth  and  practically experiencing "Sukh He Denyat Aahe" i.e." Happiness lyes in giving" once we realise this, we can be said to have achieved the Moksha ,And then onwards we are on the way to achieve Sukh ,Yash & Samruddhi.

JV does not emphasize on attaining  Moksha .It does not expect only acquiring knowledge , but it tells to practise this knowledge and attain the happiness.

Without acquaring knowledge we won't get Moksha (Moksha-means getting the puzzel of life solved-Jeevanache Ganeet Sutane"),And we are able to achieve Sukh only after getting this kind of MOKSHA.(Sukh also has been defined by JV as Sukh =Physical Sukh +
 Psychological Sukh +Spiritual Sukh i e sharirik Sukh +Manasik Sukh +Aatmik sukh)

First try to undetrstand the 2 terms as definrd by JV-Sukh & Moksha.Then you will get the query solved by youself.


Thanking you,
Meena
May god bless all.

[mk]

Namonamah,
Thanks, everybody, for your efforts.

I think the word "mere" is missing from both Subhashjee's and Meenajee's posts.

"JV does not emphasize mere Moksha" (Meenajee's post)

"JV does not emphasize mere MOKSHA as the mission of life" (Subhashjee's post)

If it is so, I have no further questions; rather even earlier questions would have been unnecessary.

Regards
Milind Khadilkar

[vidyanil]

Dear All,

I rememebr reading the definition of MOKSHA given by Gautam The Buddha in one of the books and i would like to quote here just for reference, hoping it will help the discussion.
Buddha defines MOKSHA as "THE END OF SUFFERING".

May God bless all with akhand naam smaraan.

vidyanil

[subhash]

Vidyanil,

Thanks.

Mk,

My first reply was clear in "mere" confusion:
QUOTE
MOKSHA is but a milestone in the infinite journey of life. SUKH continues to accompany us thereafter. But this is not the end, it is a beginning !
UNQUOTE

God bless you, God bless all,
Subhash