Satkarma aani Dushkarmache Phal.

[kanchan]

By Definition pap or punya is the impression of our karma taped tape of consciousness and it is deposited in our subconscious mind.

Also according to JV
Even if we are doing good in same birth(Satkarma),and we don?t get good fruits for that.
One of the reason for that is Duskarma done in previous birth.And vice a versa.

One good example JV has given that some trees gives fruits after one year and some after 150 years.

So my question is?
1. Person may get disturbed who is doing Sat karma and still get bad fruits.

2.And as per above example can we conclude that its been decided from our birth that what we r going to to get (bad or good fruits?)
 and if answer is yes than doesn?t it sound like Nashibat je lihle aahe te ghadte.

And this statement is exactly opposite to You are the architecture of your own destiny.
(Of course I agree with JVs this statement) but I need some explanation on above two points.

Sorry if any misinterpitation.

[mk]

Namonamah,
Kanchanjee, Namaste.

JV, when it says that "You are the architect of your destiny" in English, says "tooch aahes tujhyaa jeevanaachaa shilpakaar" in Marathi. Shilpakaar is not the same as architect and destiny is not jeevan. This shows that you need to ignore the words JV uses and concentrate on the reason why it says what it does. You will realise that JV feels that (irrespective of what the truth is) it is wiser for a person to believe in one's own abilities.

I too agree with it, but look at one more issue: JV objects to people believing in Nasheeb. That is right. But JV also believes that a person who says he/she believes in Nasheeb really believes in Nasheeb. My contention (with some practical experience behind it) is that people more often just talk about Nasheeb (for conformance's sake, maybe) but actually believe that it is within their own abilities to make or mar.

Also, there is a quaint angle to it: "tooch" is not the same as "you". JV does not say "you alone are the architect of your destiny"!

One more problem which I want to address but have found myself not upto it: What does "you" refer to anyway? You as "commoners" define it or you as JV defines it?

Thanks and best wishes
Milind Khadilkar

"आम्ही कोण म्हणुनि काय पुसता...." (http://kavitabhavlelya.blogspot.com/2008/08/blog-post_20.html)

[omkar]

a short story for all

This is something basic to be remembered. It will help in many doubtful moments, in many
questioning moments.
A man came to Junnaid, a Sufi mystic, and asked him, ?What do you say about pre-determination,
kismet, fate, and the freedom of man? Is man free to do whatever he wants to do? Or is he simply
a puppet in the hands of an unknown puppeteer, who simply dances the dance that the puppeteer
chooses??
Junnaid is one of the few beautiful mystics. He shouted at the man, ?Raise up one leg!?
The man was a very rich man; Junnaid knew it. All the disciples, the whole school knew about it
? and he had shouted so loudly and so rudely, ?Raise one leg up!? And the rich man had never
followed anybody?s orders; he had not gone there to follow orders. And he could not conceive even
a far off, far-fetched, off-the-wall relationship between his question and this answer. But when you
are facing a man like Junnaid you have to follow him.
He raised his right leg.
Junnaid said, ?That is not enough. Now raise the other, too.?
Now the man was at a loss, and angry also. He said, ?You are asking absurdities! I had come to ask
a philosophical question ? that you simply dropped without answering. You asked me to raise one
leg, I raised my right leg. And now you are asking me to raise the other, too. What do you want?
How can I raise both legs??
Junnaid said, ?Then sit down. Have you received the answer to your question or not??
The man said, ?The answer to my question has not been given yet. Instead you have been training
me in this parade!?
Junnaid said, ?See the point: when I said, ?Raise one of your legs? you had the freedom to choose
either the right or the left. Nobody was determining it, it was your choice to raise the right leg. But
once you had chosen the right leg you could not choose the left too. It is your freedom that has
determined the fact of your bondage. Now your left leg is in bondage.?
Man is half free and half in bondage, but he is free first.
And it is his freedom, how he uses his freedom, that determines his bondage. There is nobody
sitting there writing in your head or making lines on your palms. Even an omnipotent God must be
tired by now, doing this stupid thing of making lines on people?s hands. And so many people are
coming... writing in everybody?s head what he is going to be, where he is going to be born, when he
is going to die, what disease, what doctor is going to kill him. All these details!
Either God must have gone mad doing all this work ? just think of yourself, if you have to do this kind
of work, and for no reason ? or he must have committed suicide. Even if he were mad he would have
to do his work; so for a few days he may have been mad, while he made this humanity, and then
he committed suicide ? because he does not want to see the world evaporate because of nuclear
weapons. But he has written those nuclear weapons in your heads; he is responsible.
Nobody is responsible, and there is no God.
These are our strategies to throw responsibility into others? hands.
You are free, but each act of freedom brings a responsibility ? and that is your bondage. Either call
it ?bondage?, which is not a beautiful word, or call it ?responsibility?. That is what I call it.
You choose a certain act ? that is your freedom ? but then the consequences will be your
responsibility.

Thanks JV Thanks all members Thanks you
Omkar
may god bless all with "akhand sadgurukrupa & effortless namsmaran"

[mk]

Namonamah,
Thanks Omkarjee for this beautiful story. I must say this is the most enjoyable piece I have seen on JV forum.

A story is, after all, a story. Maybe, a tall story!

It would be interesting how many different sets of lessons different people can learn out of this.

It will help, no doubt, in many moments of doubt by bringing in more possiblities to torture oneself with.

Parallel to the message of the story we could always say that it is your choice whether to believe something or not  ....  but then, your choice ends, your freedom ends. And so be it!

Thanks and best wishes
Milind Khadilkar

[MEENA PATKAR]

To,
Kanchan,
Namaskar


Quote
and if answer is yes than doesn?t it sound like Nashibat je lihle aahe te ghadte.

Unquote'

It does sounding like that. But  ,if you don't mind , can I ask you a question??
Can you tell me , from where this "Nashib"  comes from?? who is writing this Nashib.


sadguru has said that Nashibat asel tase ghadte he khare nasoon , apan ghadavu tase nasheeb ghadte.


Thanks,
Meena
May God bless all

[kanchan]

Namaskar!!!

I am sorry but could not get explanation for those two points raised in my first post

[omkar]

Hello all
Namskar Kanchan jee

  before answering your question I want to ask you a question

How do you know that the satkarmas/Dushkarmas you are doing/done is not giving fruits in this life? Is there any way to know that?

Thanks JV Thanks all members Thanks you
Omkar
may god bless all with "akhand sadgurukrupa & effortless namsmaran"

[MEENA PATKAR]

tO,
Kanchan,

My qt. is in the thread of giving the explanation to your queries only.Before explaining  I want to know , what you know about "Nasheeb"?What idea do you have in your mind  about "Nasheeb" .
Whatever may be , but tell me , because it is  necessary for  giving the reply to your queries, so that the explanation will become easy.

thanks
Meena
May God bless all

[kanchan]

Namskar Meenatai

According to Me,Nashib is one who is decided by God(in terms of JV decided by Nisarg Vyavstha) .

So in present birth we have impact of past karmas+present karmas=Phal(Satkarmache or Dishkarmache)

In present karmas it is abosolutely correct that You are the Architecture of your own Destiny.

Hope I anwered ur question.Still wants to ask more..then kind request to pls proceed further....

[MEENA PATKAR]

To
Kanchan,
Namaskar

This is  exactly where people make mistake in knowing God.

This is where JV differentiates itself.JV has said a completely new thing to the whole world.JV says God never interferes in your life.He neither blesses nor curses anybody.

God has made a human being different from other animals by giving him buddhi.Buddhi means thinking power --buddhi only makes us behave nicely or otherwise.Each moment of our life we live , with our own decision . Here we should know the imp. law of nature explained by JV is action & reaction equal & opposie (Sadguru has said further  a subtle action has reaction of 1000times-subtle action means action at thought level-therefore Vishwaprarthana is introduced by Shree sadguru).
These actions are going to creat the reactions , and when these reactions accumulate & manifest in our life then whatever we experience  is called  "Nasheeb".

Therefore JV says "You are the architect of your destiny.We can achieve whatever we wish and we can live life what we desie.Therefore ,the most imortant siddhant JV has said is "Nasheebat asel tase ghadte he khare nasoon aapan Ghadvu tase nasheeb ghadate".


Thanks ,
Meena
May God bless all

[omkar]

Hi

Thanks All for replying

my  one question is that if we are creators of our destiny, then why are we unable to choose "the timing" to choose our karma fal

Is it because we have forgotton that Siddhi?

[please remember the story of Arjuna who choose to be "bruhannada" [By curse of Menka in Swarga] only for period of adnyatwash in Mahabharata or in Ramayna Ramachya wanwas period madhye when he goes to meet the rishi in asram the  rishi hide there ill body under blanket for serving ram (afterwards they got cured by grace of Ram)]

Thanks JV Thanks all members Thanks you
Omkar
may god bless all with "akhand sadgurukrupa & effortless namsmaran"


   

[mk]

Namonamah,
Omkarjee Namaste,

I am pleased with your query (and with your querying in general). I would have been happier if I had the knowledge or wisdom to respond to you positively. In the absence of these qualities I will give the answer that came to my mind automtically:

Please start with the assumption that you are NOT the architect of your destiny and try to disprove it logically by contradiction. (Remember, it will be possible only if you have the faith that your assumption is wrong.)

You will find that just being on this path is very useful, and more enjoyable than reaching the goal itself. And when you do reach your goal, you would have proved to your satisfaction that you indeed are the architect of your destiny. No amount of positive examples, illustrations or bits and pieces of "evidence" would give you the satisfaction.

Once you have arrived at your goal by this difficult discovery path, you will have no trouble in taking the examples you have quoted in your own stride. They will stop troubling you. You will, with full faith in the logic behind your faith, see them as mere stories. It is only when you absorb JV through the easier shortcut of "accept first, satisfy yourself later" that these things keep troubling you.

Have I tried this path? No. I am standing at the junction of "You ARE the Architect" and "You are NOT The Architect" roads. There is a beautiful garden here with all sorts of recreational facilities and abundant nourishment. And there is a clear stream in whose waters you can admire yourself reflected in depth.

I have been in this garden for years! I will choose which road to follow once I am tired of this bewitching garden.

My best wishes to you.

Milind Khadilkar

[omkar]

Thanks Milind jee & all for replying

As said earlier please don't use "Sir" & "jee" before the name "omkar" this name has been taken for some adhyatmic pragati!!

Nice explanation indeed!
 as par your explanation it seems like you are suggesting me to make a choice of something!!
 It is also true that you have also made a choice of not making a choice   or choosing to stay in  junction of "You ARE the  Architect" and "You are NOT The Architect" roads.

my next question is that is it really true that if we have a choice or in other words weather we get absolute right to choose. It is seen many times that we are FORSE to choose by the pressure of circumstances??

e.g only ::: In a war a soldier has no choice but to choose to fight war in every cirum stances & if he have no controll over what he choose how will he be taken responsible for what he chosen

eg only :::: In a govt office if a person has to take bribe because all office is taking bribe & if he choose not to take bribe he will be torchored in various ways like transfaring far long or otherwise & he also cant donate it because the money is needed to bribe for transfer of service where the person is most suitable not just financially but family wise & curing any problem etc etc then who will be chooser & then who will be punished
 
I know above examples are various way outs like the soldier can resign but what may happen if he is only earning member in family & he cant CHOOSE to leave the job


Thanks JV Thanks all members Thanks you
Omkar
may god bless all with "akhand sadgurukrupa & effortless namsmaran"


 

[mk]

Namonamah
Omkarjee, you are right.

What finally do I have  a choice of?
Deep down, is this question not the same as WHO AM I?

The best thing is not to trouble yourself (Ha! Do you have a choice there?), and that is what JV calls as being Nivaant. You cannot reach that stage without conscious effort, so again you have to face the question: do you have the ability to choose whether to make that effort?

This can go on and on.

Quoting from your signature:
Your question cannot be solved within the mind. Whatever you do, the mind keeps a balance. If you
increase arguments on one side, the mind will increase the arguments on the other side, and there
will always remain a balance. Inside the mind there is no solution.



Thanks and Best wishes
Milind Khadilkar

PS: For earlier discussion on the jee issue, see Subhashjee's post:
Re: Do the terms Dev, Eashwar and Parameshwar mean the same in JV?
? Reply #23 on: December 12, 2007, 04:24:53 AM ?
PS: Shall we stop calling people with -ji ? We do not call people we know as -ji. We are friends. We are a great group.

[omkar]

Hi
Milind Thanks for reply

So can I say that we should go for choiceless awareness

Thanks JV Thanks all members Thanks you
Omkar
may god bless all with "akhand sadgurukrupa & effortless namsmaran"