Divya Bank Balance or something else?

[mk]

Namonamah,

If child A is born rich and child B is born poor, is it right to conclude that A's Divya Bank Balance at birth was more than that of B?
(No, I am not going to spring a Slumdog Millionaire question after this)

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[sukhsiddhi]

vIttHal ViTThal...  MK  KAKA .........!

Yes..........it is right to conclude that A's Divya Bank Balance at birth was more than that of B..

God bless you...god bless all.............!

[omkar]

Hello all Thanks Milind & Sukh siddhi for replying

It may happen that the rich boy go through surgery or he is affected by pneumonia & poor boy have perfect health what will you say then??

Omkar
[May everybody be blessed with akhand sadgurukrupa & effortless namsmaran ]

[mk]

Namonamah,
Thanks, Siddhijee.
You are right Omkarjee.
The question why, if a person has a good bank balance at birth, he does not necessarily get all the goodies in proportion, is natural. Does it blend well with the Divya Bank Balance concept? At first sight at least it blends better with Statistics and Uncertainty.

Best wishes
Milind Khadilkar

[sukhsiddhi]

Vitthal vitthal Mk kaka..... !!

 I dont think that divya   bank concept is uncertain may that...we do not have total knowledge about this...I'll be asking this question to senior namdharak....!

GOD BLESS ALL  ...!

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskar MK Jee,

"As you sow, so you reap" is the law of nature. Therefore if you have given to others the items which can be bought by money like food, clothes, medicines etc or you have donated money to somebody or given money to any organization which collects donation for needy people  then  you will become eligible to receive those things and also wealth.

 If somebody takes good care of his/her body. (takes nutritious diet, does exercise, etc and abstains from all bad habits which can intoxicate body) then he/she will be eligible for having body with good health. Failing to do this the person has to face the consequences of his action.

So health-disease, wealth-poverty all this is because of our own actions either in this birth or previous births. Unless we put the interaction of continuous strong positive thinking along with naam smaran or VP chanting, we have to face reactions of past actions in our life.   

May God bless all!

[mk]

Namonamah,
Thanks Siddhijee, Dr. Nutanjee,
Thanks Omkarjee (though hopefully you will read this only after your exams).

Dr. Nutanjee, actually your response somewhat bypasses my question. Probably the question needs to be reworded. Here is one more attempt:

X is born very rich, but blind at birth
Y is born very poor, but is born a musical genious
Z is born in a middle class family with good health and fairly good intelligence
T is born in a very rich family where the family members are all involved in illegal, antisocial business
U is born in a well-to-do farmer's family
V is born into a temple priest's family

I am fully aware of the JV tenet that "you are the master (or only the architect? The architect of my house is not the master of it assuming I have paid him off) of your own destiny", but that comes later. At birth or for a few years thereafter there is little one can do about it.

In that case, the only explanations for the above situations can be through the rebirth+divya bank theory or through statistics. With statistics the answer is simple. I do not know how divya bank theory can explain this.

I hope my doubt is clearer.

Thanks and Best wishes
Milind Khadilkar

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskar MK jee,

Please goes through earlier discussion on paap-puny in other thread to understand what is paap and puny according to JV philosophy.

As discussed earlier the birth of particular person in particular condition depends on the child's karmas in earlier life/lives. It also depends on the thoughts, desires of the person while leaving the body and also depends on the karmic relations (give-take relations) of the child with other people. 

Every person's life is governed by the laws of nature and whatever action the person does at the physical and mental level, the person gets circumstances, relations, health accordingly. For all the specific conditions mentioned in your example the same rules can be said to be applied. There is nothing like who has more punya than others. Because puny is nothing but the impressions of all actions in the subconscious mind which have capacity to create reaction/s as per the type and intensity of magnitude of action/s.  

Nature does not do injustice to anybody and is very systematic in action. It does not act in bizarre way. For every effect there is cause and cause is man's own action in previous birth in the case of child.

May God bless all!

[mk]

Namonamah,
Thanks Dr. Nutanjee.

I had not referred to paap-punya because it has often been stressed on this forum that the paap-punya  gets translated into the "Divya Bank Balance"
From your post it is clear to me now that

1. it is not something as straightforward as "Divya Bank Balance" that decides circumstances at birth. A lot of other factors come into play. The Divya Bank, therefore is just an allegory, a metaphor, a roopak.

2. this multitude of factors involved, each of which is unknown, gives this phenomenon a randomness which can best be treated by statistics and not by philosophy.

3. The "justness" of nature is a topic of debate which deserves a thread of its own.

Thanks and Regards
Milind Khadilkar

[amitst]

I am fully aware of the JV tenet that "you are the master (or only the architect? The architect of my house is not the master of it assuming I have paid him off) of your own destiny", but that comes later. At birth or for a few years thereafter there is little one can do about it.

In that case, the only explanations for the above situations can be through the rebirth+divya bank theory or through statistics. With statistics the answer is simple. I do not know how divya bank theory can explain this.

I hope my doubt is clearer.

I want to comment on your quoted text "there is little one can do about it.". What you are seeing as a result is because of your deeds (even though in previous life). The paristhiti after birth for certain years is guided heavily by your prarabdha and your parent's deeds (because you are consuming the money earned by your parent by good or bad way and getting different facilities). The cases like "child is born rich and stays happy until he comes of age" (i.e. till he activates his kriyaman) and vice versa ("child born poor and is deprived of all facilities till he/she grows up") are simple examples and the answers can be straightforward (i.e. lot of papa or punya in the divya bank). Note that divya bank balance is utilized for deciding where to take birth. Other cases like "child is born rich but feeding on corrupt money" or "child born poor but gets education of say jeevanvidya sanskar kedra in early life" are a bit complicated examples. We can look at them with the following view.

Life is a mixture of good and bad deeds (or importantly thoughts). Every act bears a fruit waiting to ripe (for a favorable paristhiti after a specific amount of time). So in the example "child born rich but feeding on corrupt money" the child must be getting his two fruits (though opposite in nature) at nearly the same time. Remember the example of valya koli? He was doing a lot of bad deeds and there was a very slim chance for him of anything good happening to him. However, he must have done a sufficiently strong positive act (probably in his previous life) which bore him a (positive) fruit and he could meet narad muni. Rest is well known.

So what is the moral? If you are facing a difficult time, inspect your thoughts/nature (stop blaming others as you only are responsible for these times), if you find nothing wrong then sustain till the bad times are over (as they must be the ripened fruits of your previous negative acts) and try to do vishwa prarthana or any positive smaran continuously. With this approach, you will be minimizing your papas and maximizing your punyas.

[omkar]

Thanks all for replying

What is end of this game?

Is there any end to action & reaction game??

If any body knows please tell me

Omkar

Omkar
[May everybody be blessed with akhand sadgurukrupa & effortless namsmaran ]

[omkar]

I have never come across a good man who has suffered, because each good act is a reward in itself,
and each bad act is a punishment in itself. There are not rewards and punishments afterwards,
beyond death, beyond this world. If you put your hand into the fire, it will be burned right now ? not
in the next life, not in hell. Cause and effect are connected; they cannot be separated.

Omkar
[May everybody be blessed with akhand sadgurukrupa & effortless namsmaran ]

[omkar]

I am against Krishna?s idea; he says to Arjuna in GITA, that ?Only the action is in your hands; the
result is in God?s hands.? That kind of split is absolutely illogical, absurd. Action is in your hands and
the result will be in God?s hands: this is very tricky. This is the strategy of the priesthood.
Otherwise, the simple fact is that the act is yours and the responsibility is yours. Action and its effect,
cause and effect, are connected together; you cannot divide them.

But why was Krishna dividing it? ? he was just representing the priesthood. For thousands of
years the priesthood has been confronting a simple problem which they cannot solve. They see
criminals, sinners becoming successful, rich. They see simple people, innocent people being
crushed, exploited, oppressed, and still religion goes on saying, ?Be simple, be innocent.? Then the
question arises: if innocence and simplicity are never rewarded, only corruption, cruelty, violence
are rewarded, then why be simple? To avoid this dilemma they had to create a false theology: that
it is because of their past lives? actions that those people are enjoying success, fame; now God is
giving them rewards.
But why is God so lazy, so lousy? It seems that there is also some kind of Indian bureaucracy,
so that the files move from one life into another life. If it is true, then bribery must exist there; just
with the file, a hundred-rupee note, and then Ghanshyamdas Birla enters into heaven and the poor
innocent man without a hundred-rupee note is thrown into hell. You have to pass something under
the table, otherwise the file does not move over the table. It moves according to how many notes
move underneath the table ? otherwise why should it take such a long time? No, in existence things
are immediate.
I am in absolute agreement with the idea of science that cause and effect are together. As far as the
cause is concerned, you are free. But then you should remember: the effect is decided by you, by
your cause. In fact, you are free in that too; it is an outcome of your freedom.
Take life in a very simple, non-theological way and you will be surprised: there are no problems.
It is a mystery, but not a problem.
A problem is that which can be solved; a mystery is that which can be lived but can never be solved.
Meditation is nothing but an exploration of the mystery ? not an explanation, not a search to find the
solution to it, but an exploration.... To dissolve into it slowly slowly, just as a ripple disappears into
the ocean; this disappearance is the only religiousness that I know of. All else is nonsense.

Omkar
[May everybody be blessed with akhand sadgurukrupa & effortless namsmaran ]

[mk]

Namonamah,
Amitstjee Namaste,
Thanks for resuming postings to the forum. I have read your earlier posts, but I believe (and just confirmed) that these are the first posts from you since I joined the forum.

About your response, yes, you are right. I am sure I am the cause of what I face at birth or upto early age. But the fact remains that there is hardly anything that I can do about it till that age. Add to it, I am not mature enough to reason it out either.

Many equally convincing theories can be proposed to explain a phenomenon. For the sake of simplicity we choose the one which uses the least number of unknown factors. For example, the scientific community discarded the planetary model of Ptolemy and adopted the one by Copernicus because it was the simpler one in the above sense.

Randomness can provide the simpler explanation to the circumstances at birth. Yet, we continue to search for alternative theories which are more complex. Why? One plausible explanation why we should prefer the JV approach against the simpler one available is an earlier query of mine: http://www.jeevanvidya.org/forum/index.php/topic,374.0.html

Thanks and regards.
Milind Khadilkar

[dr.nutanpol]

Namaskar Omkar,

I know that you are busy with your studies and may not see this answer till your examination gets over.  Hence you may answer to this post later.

Shri Satguru says that, what Krishna meant by saying ?Karmanyev adhikaraste ma phaleshu kadachan?  is that,

The person can do any karma but he cannot decide what should be fruit of the karma.

Because the nature of fruit of karma lies in the karma itself.

Depending on the type of action one is likely to receive the fruit and it will not be in the way, anybody wishes it to be. 

There are many misinterpretations about the meaning of Krishna?s guidance in Geeta and they need be cleared from the self realized saint like Satguru like Shri Wamanrao Pai.

May God bless all!