Just or Fair?

[mk]

Namonamah,

JV believes nature is just; i.e. nature rewards on the basis of what one deserves.

But in practice, it appears nature is not just but only fair (i.e. it does not practice favouritism). It is a human creation (government, rules and regulations, philosophy) that superimposes justice. As an example, in the absence of rules to the contrary, when I will get a seat in a crowded bus is a very random phenomenon which is not unfair. But a first-come-first-served arrangement (which is a law that counters natural randomness) would have been more just. If I am lucky, I will get it before someone who had been standing for a longer time. If I am unlucky, someone who has boarded the bus after me gets the seat earlier. The system is unjust no doubt, but it is not unfair. The randomness does sometime favour you!
I am not saying that justice is not necessary. I only contend that justness is an imposition of human civilization on the working of an unjust nature.

JV wishes (and wants people to believe) that nature is just. In reality nature is only fair.

Where am I going wrong?

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[amitst]

I think you are ignoring an important fact of sanchit-prarabdha-kriyaman while making a conclusion that the nature is not just. In the bus example you are assuming that every person waiting for a seat has an equal amount of sanchit (aka papa and punya), is enjoying an equal amount of prarabdha and everybody's thinking kriyaman is happening in the same way. The nature has to consider all of these facts (nenivet or subconsciously).

Secondly your perception of just/unjust doesn't play any role in the rules of the nature. The nature has its own rules. So getting a seat will not necessarily mean that you have got sukha (from the Nature's point of view). E.g. a person might stand up to offer his/her seat to an old man/woman. This doesn't mean that the nature was unjust to the person who offered the seat. I believe the act of whether the mind received an anukool experience or a pratikool one decides how the Nature treated you (in both cases the nature has treated you justly).

[mk]

Namonamah,
Amitstjee, Namaste.

I agree with you that our perception of just/unjust plays no role in the laws of nature. My point is that JV assumes justness in the laws of nature. (I do not say that nature is deliberatly unjust). Why does JV say that? Answer: To instill the belief that if we do bad, we will be done bad. This sort of belief is seen to have desirable social results. It is in line with JV's philosophy of goodness even if it means sacrificing truth.

Justness might be perception dependent. Fairness is not, except when the word is used loosely in place of justness.
I hope there is no disagreement about nature being fair.

Thanks and regards
Milind Khadilkar

[subhash]

MK,

Nature is not just or unjust. Nature is. That is it. In nature, so many species have gone and so many new species come in. There are laws of nature and things happen according to the laws of nature. Human being is one species who has got freedom of action.

Laws of land may not be just and even fair. Talk about countries which do not allow woman to drive a car. Talk about laws of land - they change over a period of time. Woman voting was not allowed and it was not even considered unfair! This is changing.

My belief is that laws of land only extend the laws of nature in the larger interest.

Secondly, your frame of reference is also important. MUNGI will think that a human being walking on me is unjust, so will you think that creation of mosquito in this world is unjust. In front of nature, you are just another species among so many millions of them.

God bless you, God bless all,
Subhash

[omkar]

Hello all
Thanks Milind for starting this topic
Thanks Amit,Subhash for replying

Why does JV say that? Answer: To instill the belief that if we do bad, we will be done bad. This sort of belief is seen to have desirable social results.

may be this is the answer !!!

Omkar

[May God bless all with akhand sadgurukrupa & effortless namsmran]